#04 | Four Steps to Ask for What You Want in Bed

Wild & Sublime Podcast Transcript

#04 | Four Steps to Ask for What You Want in Bed

[Wild & Sublime theme music]

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: [Music under] The risk is that you are exposing yourself to your partner, possibly thinking you're a freak, okay, that's a real risk. The reward is, the thing you asked for-- you can get. That's pretty cool.

REN GRABERT: What if? What if they're into it?

CAITLIN V: You can say "no" to this one act, and it might mean "yes" to a whole bunch of other things.

KAREN YATES: Welcome to Wild & Sublime, a sexy spin on infotainment, no matter your preferences, orientation or relationship style, based on the popular live Chicago show. Each week I'll chat about sex and relationships with citizens from the world of sex-positivity, with spicy additions from storytellers and musicians. I'm Karen Yates.

Today's episode: a panel discussion from our live show about how to ask for what you want in bed, in four steps. Then we'll roleplay those conversations for you. You will also hear a sexy song from musician-comedian Matt Griffo and cellist Leyla Royale, and my Sermon on the Pubic Mound. Keep listening.

Wild & Sublime is sponsored in part by Uberlube: long-lasting silicone lubricant for sex, sport, and style. I highly recommend it. Go to uberlube.com.

[Music ends] So, one of the things that interests me in sex education is helping people understand exactly how to do something, or at least giving them a blueprint from which to work. And I'm interested in this because sex is so shrouded in shame, morality, misinformation, self-judgement, and fear, that most folks discuss sexual matters easily. So, there tends to be a paucity of details. There's a big word for you, paucity. In other words, not a lot of details. Now, what I thought was cool about the conversation that you'll hear, is it gives you a ton of things to consider, a ton of ideas to work with. This panel conversation is from the December 2019 show recorded in Chicago at Stage 773, where we give people a four-step process in asking for what you want, followed by roleplaying various situations that have been suggested by the audience.

So, I am joined here by recurring panelists: sex and relationship coach Caitlin V, sex educator and researcher Ren Grabert, and Chicago dom and kinkster Peter, AKA MksThingsHappin. Have a listen.

[Applause] So, this is a disclaimer, the steps we're gonna be going over tonight are just guidelines, you do not have to follow them. We all know asking is difficult. And, tonight we're gonna cover four steps: the Prep, the Ask, the Negotiation, and the Takeaway.

First, the prep. So, in preparing, when we were talking on the phone, Ren, you were talking about, kind of, mental prep. And what is... what does that... what... what does that mean to you?

REN GRABERT: Yeah. Well, you know, before you ask somebody for something really big, you know, it's really good to know exactly, you know, what you wanna ask for, how you wanna ask it. Because if you get into the situation, and you're totally unprepared, things might come out that you didn't expect, you know, and it's good to just kind of have like, an idea of what you want to talk about. So, one great way to really figure that out, is to do a lot of personal exploration, doing some research, really understanding, you know, what you want and why you want it. You don't have to know every single thing.

KAREN YATES: Cool. Now, Caitlin, you were talking about asking for, you know, doing research, especially if your partner... if you know your partner has certain abilities, or you know, disabilities... has had trauma... like, the kind of research you can do. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

CAITLIN V: Yeah, it strikes me that so much of this conversation is about knowledge and awareness, which is probably two of the hardest things to bring to any conversation. But the more aware that you are of your partner, their history, their preferences, their limitations, their hard boundaries, their soft boundaries-- and the same is true for your knowledge and awareness of yourself-- the more prepared you can be for this conversation, the more flexible that you can be too.

KAREN YATES: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. MksThingsHappin, you were talking about doing... doing actual research, like on... like porn or Google, you know, googling... and can you talk more about that?

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: Yeah, part of the prep is, you know, I figure there's only three possible outcomes: yes, no, maybe. So, what if they actually say yes? Well, then you need to be prepared to answer questions. So you couldread-- read articles, read books, you can use porn, as, you know, visual aid and, "I want to do that." You can just decide that you're going to learn something together. But being able to actually speak to the topic to some level of knowledge really will help the conversation flow better. So then, with the "maybe," well, what does that look like? And what are you prepared to negotiate to? You may not get the thing that you're looking for, but what will you be okay with when you're negotiating with your partner?

KAREN YATES: Yeah, you know, it's interesting, as we're all talking about this, I realized, I think most people... they have the fear and they just jump into the conversation without really preparing adequately, you know. I know a lot of people, that... they don't do any research, they just make the ask, and then it's like I... say I wanna open up the relationship, and they don't know anything about... really, they haven't read any books on poly or consensual non-monogamy and... and then just sort of flounder. Yeah.

CAITLIN V: And consider the... the heavy weight that you're putting on your partner if you're sort of asking them to carry that out for you. You know, if you're saying, "Hey, I have this fantasy in which... in which you tie me up and flog me, could you figure out how to do that?" [laughter] Now, you... I mean, in some dynamics that's important!

KAREN YATES: No, very real! I think it's very real. Yeah.

CAITLIN V: It's very real. I think we ask our partners to do a lot of that labor, emotional labor, and sometimes even real labor. And when we are prepared, when we research when we kind of, put in that footwork, we show that we're committed, that we're making it easy on... I mean, like, you have to give it... make it easy for your partner to say "yes."

KAREN YATES: Right. So, now as we move into the "ask," I think you brought up getting to consent to even have the conversation, right?

CAITLIN V: Yes. So my favorite way to start any challenging conversation is by asking if now is a good time to have a conversation. Because it's something that we don't really consider. Usually, we're really thinking about ourselves. Like, "I am so nervous that I'm gonna ask this..." and we're not like, "How has my partner's day been? Are they in the mood to have a conversation like this? Like, maybe they're really stressed out about something, or they had a crappy day Christmas present shopping, and like, now is definitely not the time to ask for like, additional stuff.

And so, I really like asking for consent, and like, giving a little bit of a framework so someone knows that they're saying yes to, and it also models consent for whatever it is that you're then going to ask them to maybe introduce into the bedroom. So start with, "Hey, there's something I wanna talk to you about, it's probably gonna be a little bit of a longconversation. It is about you know... it's... it's something about, like a... it's a sensitive subject. And if not now, let me know when you have the availability to have that conversation."

KAREN YATES: You know, we talked about... on the phone we were talking about, like, once you make the ask... because eventually you're just gonna spit out what you want, right? Or the... what you are looking for, there's... [laughter]

CAITLIN V: It might involve spitting, I don't know. [laughter]

KAREN YATES: It might involve spitting. [laughter] But, part of it is... which I thought was brilliant about communicating to your partner... like, what it means emotionally to you. Like... because I think sometimes when we ask for things, it just kind of like... it's just there. It's just like, "This is what I want." And I think the person receiving that information doesn't really understand, "well, what does this mean?" Is this a demand? But, speaking from like a heart place, or what you need, what you... that area can be very effective.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: You know, I've been doing kink a long time, and even now, I still find myself in new areas that I didn't even realize I was interested in, and I find myself asking partners to do things. And, one thing that used to hold me back from asking was, I didn't know why, you know. "Why do I like this particular thing? Why do I like rope? Why do I like pet play?" And it really held me back. And one of the things that helped me a lot was, I stopped getting stuck on the "why." It was more about the "how" and more about the proper conversation-connection with my partner. And once I realized that I didn't necessarily have to start the conversation on "why," it made it a lot easier for me to even start.

CAITLIN V: I also think about this in terms of, it's... it's a seduction, right? Like, you're... you're giving someone something-- a request in this instance-- and you have to explain to them also what the benefit will be, or else the request can fall very flatly or we can get hung up on the details: "I don't know how to tie someone up, I don't know how to properly flog, I don't... I don't have access to those tools." And it's not about that, right. It's about what it's gonna provide for you as their partner. And if they care about you, they love you, they want you to be sexually satisfied, let them know that what... the thing that you're asking for will provide that for you. You have to, like... sales is not sexy, but you are selling someone on an idea, and so consider how you can, you know, make the case for it.

KAREN YATES: Right.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: I wanted to add to that. I think the most important thing is just to ask. There's a lot of prep and there's steps, but you know, there's a natural risk and there's a hidden reward. Well, part of it's hidden part of it is awesome. So we'll talk about that. The risk is that you are exposing yourself to your partner possibly thinking you're a freak, okay, that's a real risk. You're also exposing yourself to possibly your partner kind of looking at you differently. I mean, that's real fair, and that could be the more extreme example, but that is something you think about.

The reward: one is the thing you asked for, you could get. That's pretty cool. [laughter] But what I found, and even when I got "no's" on things I asked for... and it was that, because I was in a relationship that I was able to be vulnerable and say, "Hey, I would like to do pet play. I know it sounds weird. I know it's odd, but I would like to do something that's unusual. Even when they said "no," we actually got closer, because now "Hey, I've been vulnerable, I'm exposing this particular weird thing of myself, and you didn't reject me." And you naturally get closer, and maybe the next time they'll ask me for something, because they know that it's a safer environment.

KAREN YATES: Mm-hm. Right. Great. So now, moving into the negotiation for both the receiver and the asker... Ren, one of the things you're talking about is curiosity, being curious, and do you... Does that mic work?

REN GRABERT: No!

KAREN YATES: Okay! [laughter]

REN GRABERT: Thank you! Yeah. So just going in with a sense of curiosity can be really helpful, you know. I think there are a lot of... it's easy to just get really caught up in the, "Oh, this is what my partner's going to think," you know, and you get in that negative self-talk. Instead, it's better to kind of go in with a "What if? What if they're into it? What if, you know, this comes out of this conversation? What if we're closer than ever before?" So that's a really great way to kind of start that investigation.

KAREN YATES: Yeah. An investigation, more like an investigation...

REN GRABERT: Yeah.

KAREN YATES: ...and uncovering of what's here.

REN GRABERT: Yeah. And it's fun to be curious, you know? Like, you start asking all kinds of questions that you didn't even think you had, you know. You could even learn about yourself, learn more about your partner.

KAREN YATES: Like, "When... when did you first have this... this fantasy? Or when did you first want to do this? Do you remember when?" It becomes a lot more neutral, right?

REN GRABERT: Absolutely.

KAREN YATES: Hmm. So, then there's the.. of the negotiation, and we were... talked a lot about the... "no" is not always the "no"... a "no." And what do... what do folks have to say about that?

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: You know, you have to respect the "no." I mean, that's a given. But, you know, in society, when people hear something unusual, their natural, trained condition reaction is to say, "No, I'm supposed to say 'no' to a threesome, I'm supposed to say no to anything unusual," But, gave your partner a little time to let the idea percolate. They may come back to you in a week or so and go, "Okay, we talked about rope. Can you tell me more about it? So, just... the conversation should be, like you said, not a sales pitch. There are definitely elements of sales, like handling the objection... [laughter]

CAITLIN V: Thank you for saying more about that. [laughter]

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: ...close the deal, you know. [laughter] But, it's not a "one point in time" conversation, it's an ongoing thing. This thing that you're asking to do is going to be an extension of your relationship, and how it's handled really will reflect how you two, or multiples in that... in your relationship... how you guys interact with one another.

KAREN YATES: Yeah.

CAITLIN V: And I... I wanna add that we... we only have like one word for "no," but it actually means a constellation of things, unfortunately.

KAREN YATES: Mmm.

CAITLIN V: And it's really unfortunate, because we've had to-- in our really sex negative culture-- come forward with like, a blanket "no is no" in order to really protect ourselves from unwanted sexual contact, right. But, in a partnership when there's safety and security at the foundation... and that really leads the way to creativity, right, So when you have safety, you can say "no" to this one act, and it might mean yes to a whole bunch of other things. And, when you're in your mind and you're so, like, prepared to be rejected, and then someone says "no,” you might go, "Oh, god, it's no to everything, we're never doing BDSM,ever." [laughter] And the truth might be, like, "No, I don't want to..." I never... we're staying with like, the rope metaphor? I can't... I'm like... [laughter]

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: I've got plenty other topics. [laughter]

CAITLIN V: It might not be... it might be like a "no" to that, but it might not be a "no" to being restrained, or it might not be a "no" to being dominated, or it may not be a "no" to other things. And so, I encourage you to be creative, and to continue to ask... and this comes back to the idea that you have to be aware, you have to be aware of what it is that... why you're saying "no," you have to be aware of what it is that you want.

KAREN YATES: And, a certain level of diplomacy, right? With both... on both sides. Yeah. Ren, do you have something to say about diplomacy?

REN GRABERT: I mean, you know, be... be cautious about the language that you use. This is, again, why it's really important to kind of, think about this ahead of time. You know, you could ask something in a way that comes across as non-threatening, or, you know, you could kind of... be like, "Hey, like, I really need to have this kind of sex with you right now." [laughter] You know? Not that you should go that far. But like, you know, it's important to be really careful about the language that you choose, for sure.

KAREN YATES: And then, stage four: the "takeaway" and "afterwards." I mean, I think a lot of people have talked about this idea of like, "let's make a plan to wheel back to this conversation." Knowing that you're... as... as you were saying, Peter, that not everyone has a lightning quick process response. Some people need to sit with things, right. And I think also, Caitlin you were... you were talking about how sometimes this whole thing will bring up a relationship pattern, like this will bring up something that maybe isn't working in a larger... in a larger context.

CAITLIN V: That sounds like something I would say. [laughter]

KAREN YATES: And that there might be... this might be a situation where like, a third party coming in might be a thing.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: I would absolutely agree with you. If your partner is absolutely unwilling to listen to any sort of conversation like this, it's going to have a negative effect on how you feel about the relationship. And, you may, say... find yourself assessing whether this person or persons are the best people for you. So, maybe getting additional help is way to go.

KAREN YATES: And... and so finally, bouncing back after a "no," how... how do you do that? What's the best way to kind of handle just a flat-out "nope"?

CAITLIN V: One thing I want to tag on to that-- and I'll bridge to this-- is that sometimes asking requires you to come out. Like, sometimes even just like having this "ask" requires you to identify a new part of yourself to a partner. And, there's sort of two different levels of rejection in that. There can be the "No, I don't want to do that act," and then there can be this feeling of "No, I don't accept that part of you." And so, I think having a strategy for... for hearing "no," like having a strategy for hearing rejection... and being in a place where you can take good care of yourself immediately after. Do you have friends that will support you, who think that it's awesome that you want body fluids all over your face? [laughter] Do you have.. do you have a community online of people that support you? Do you have places where you can go? Can you go internally, and reassure yourself that you're... you're... you're still valid for the things that you want and that these things are possible? Maybe it's a "no" today, but it's not gonna be a no forever. This person still loves you. What's your support after that?

KAREN YATES: Yeah.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: That's a fantastic point. You know, it's... when you get the "no," it feels very personal. I mean, I don't see how it could not. But you have to remind yourself, "They're saying no to the act or activity, not necessarily you."

KAREN YATES: Okay. Thank you. [laughter]

So you'll be hearing us roleplay various "asks" from the audience in a bit. Folks wrote down things that they wanted to ask for, or were afraid to ask for. And, here are a few that did not make it to the final roleplay. Maybe you'll see yourself in here.

[Music under] "I'd love to ask for oral sex that lasts long enough for me to orgasm but I'm afraid my partner will get impatient and or see it as a chore, and also maybe hate the taste."

"I'd love to ask for more variety in bed."

“I would love to ask for pegging in bed."

"I'm afraid to ask for roleplay where I'm raped."

"I'd love to ask for pet play."

"I'm afraid to ask about opening up the relationship."

[Music ends] I remember being pretty nervous about this role playing segment, because it was pretty high wire for me, and... and this is coming from someone who is actually a performer, and has done a fair amount of improv. But... but for some reason, this just seemed to be on another level. So, what we did here was, I randomly selected audience requests, and then two of us would get up from the panel and enact the scene. So I'm happy to say that nobody died, and I think it ended up being pretty cool. So again, returning now, our panelists: Caitlin V. Ren Grabert, and Peter, AKA MksThingsHappin.

[Applause] The things people have written have been fabulous, and I cannot wait to do this. So this is the way it's gonna work... Oh, wow, this feels very serious. [laughter] Okay, okay, first thing's first let me just... okay, this one feels good. "I'd love to ask for cosplay in bed." [laughter]

REN GRABERT: Can I be asked about that?

KAREN YATES: You wanna be asked about that? Okay.

REN GRABERT: Karen, do you wanna jump in?

KAREN YATES: Sure, I'll jump in.

KAREN YATES: Hey. [laughter]

REN GRABERT: Hi, Karen.

KAREN YATES: Is this okay... is this okay to... are you... are you okay to have a conversation with me right now?

REN GRABERT: Yeah, I think... I think I'm available to... to talk with you.

KAREN YATES: Oh, okay. I'm feeling a little weird, I gotta be honest. I... I'm about to ask you something. I feel very strange about asking you something.

REN GRABERT: Okay.

KAREN YATES: So, for like, a long time, I've really wanted to try something in bed... with you.

REN GRABERT: Like what?

KAREN YATES: Well, I really wanna try cosplay.

REN GRABERT: Mmm.

KAREN YATES: Do you know what it is?

REN GRABERT: Not really, no.

KAREN YATES: Okay, so, like, you know, I have a thing for Star Trek... not the reboot! [laughter and applause]

REN GRABERT: That's legit. [laughter]

KAREN YATES: But, you know, I have really... You know I have a thing for Spock, right?

REN GRABERT: I do know that about you.

KAREN YATES: So I like, really... okay, I'm just gonna spit it out: I really want to do some strap-on play, and I'm Spock and you're James Kirk. [laughter and applause]

REN GRABERT: Well, I have to say that is surprising. [laughter] But I think it could be fun... I just... I'm not really sure what to do?

KAREN YATES: Right.

REN GRABERT: Like, would you feel comfortable like, guiding me through that kind of an experience?

KAREN YATES: Yeah, I mean, like, what I think... like, I think there's some like... Okay, okay, there's this... there's this episode... I think we really need to watch it, okay? [laughter] And, it's the episode... Okay, I won't get into that because that... I can kind of get derailed, but I think it's like, just... we... I mean, I'm really... I'm... Okay, so first, I'm relieved. I'm really... thank you. I'm just... I'm feeling really excited, and a little relieved, and a little scared, because now we actually have to do it. [laughter]

REN GRABERT: I mean, if you change your mind, it's fine too, you know.

KAREN YATES: Oh, right. Okay. So, it's just... it's really... I think, for me, it's just at this moment... like there's just some very definite things I have in my head. But then there's also things that I don't really know, maybe maybe we could like, talk... we can like, plan it together?

REN GRABERT: Yeah, that sounds fun. Maybe, like, we could have lunch and just like sit and like, figure it out together.

KAREN YATES: Oh. Yeah! Okay, okay. Thank you! Thank you. [applause] Okay! All right.

KAREN YATES: Okay, "I'm afraid to ask someone to have sex with me because I don't want to have to tell them I have an STI." Very legit. Okay. Ren. [laughter] Peter!

REN GRABERT: Hi.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: Hello. [laughter] You seem a little nervous this morning.

REN GRABERT: I feel really nervous, I really do, because I've been thinking about something, and I'm not really sure how to talk about it, but I know it's important to our, you know, relationship here, that we do. So, I'm just hoping that you'll... you'll hear me out. So, you know how we haven't had sex yet, right?

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: Yeah, I've noticed. [laughter]

REN GRABERT: It's not because I don't want to. I really... I really do. I'm really nervous to say it, and... but I'm just going to. So, I... I have herpes, and I'm... I'm afraid that you might not want to have sex with me now that you know.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: This is a shock. Honestly, I don't know how I feel. Like, you know, we have a really great time together, and I really do enjoy your company, but, you know, I... I don't know how I feel.

REN GRABERT: No, I... I understand. I... I figured you might be a little bit concerned or, you know, I'm glad that you're not completely rejecting me right out, it feels like. I mean, I... I take a supplement every day. I haven't had an outbreak in a while...

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: I... I don't know anything about herpes beyond what, you know, I learned in eighth grade, you know, decades ago.

REN GRABERT: Yeah.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: What can you tell me about it? You know?

REN GRABERT: Yeah. So, you know, if I haven't had an outbreak in a long time, it might be a little bit more difficult to transmit that infection to you. It's still possible, but, you know, I'm doing everything I possibly can to not allow that to happen. I'm not really up to date on the statistics about it, but I'd be really happy to look those up with you. Maybe... maybe we can sit and look that up together and talk about it a little bit more.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: Would it be possible for us to go to, maybe, Howard Brown or our family doctor, and kind of talk with a medical professional so I can get all the information? I have to admit, right now, I'm not comfortable with the concept of... of dealing with this, but you know, you're important to me and I at least want to find out all the information so I can make the best decision for myself and of course both of us.

REN GRABERT: Yeah, no, and I'm... I'm open to that. I can make an appointment, and we can go together.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: And I'll be there.

KAREN YATES: Cool. [applause] All right!

KAREN YATES: Does anyone wanna try the "no" response? Does anyone wanna be a "no"?

CAITLIN V: Yeah.

KAREN YATES: Okay, "I'd like to ask for sadistic play in more of my sexual encounters."

KAREN YATES: You wanna be the receiver? Okay.

CAITLIN V: Yes.

MKSTHINGSHAPPIN: This is too natural for me, so... [laughter]

KAREN YATES: Okay, okay. You're gonna be the receiver?

CAITLIN V: Yeah, I was... I'll be the "no."

KAREN YATES: You'll be the "no." Okay.

CAITLIN V: Yeah, yeah.

KAREN YATES: All right, I'll be... I'll ask then. So I'm gonna ask... let's see... I'm gonna ask for more sadistic play... okay.

KAREN YATES: So, you know, we've been together for a while. And, there's something I've really never told you about myself. And so, is... are you in an okay space right now? I mean, I... you look anxious.

CAITLIN V: I... I felt a lot of anxiety sort of, bubble up. It's like a... a feeling in my chest, but, you know, I really love you and I respect you, and I wanna know... all of you. So, I'm... I'll be okay. Thank you.

KAREN YATES: Okay.

CAITLIN V: I can talk about this.

KAREN YATES: Okay. So, you know, we've been... you know, we've... we've been having like, a lot of like, really... we... our sex life is really cool, and I really love it. But there... there is something I'm so aware of, that like, I really want to experience like, a lot more pain from you, like a lot more like, sadistic stuff. And, like, I've had that in other relationships that I haven't told you about. It used to be like... like, one relationship, that was like, the whole relationship. It was like, very BDSM, but there was like a heavy, statistical element. And, this is really hard to talk about, but I... I really feel like I need that in my life right now. It's really important. Like, I've just been sort of denying that. And it's really... yeah, it's really important to me. But I also understand it's kind of really big.

CAITLIN V: This does feel really big. I do really appreciate you coming forward to me with this. I... I can't imagine that it's easy. I have to admit, I am hurt that there's something that's so important to you... that you haven't brought forward to me. I... I get why you didn't, but I need you to know that I... I do wanna know about your and what you like. And, it kind of freaks me out to think that I'm not giving you the thing that you want.

KAREN YATES: Mm-hm.

CAITLIN V: Even though, like, how could... I didn't know. I'd like to take a little time to think about this. I realize my gut reaction is a hard "no," and I wanna really be respectful of the level of this request.

KAREN YATES: Yeah, yeah.

CAITLIN V: You... you... I... I get how important this must be for you.

KAREN YATES: Right.

CAITLIN V: Uh-huh. And this isn't... this isn't a yes to anything yet, but I want you to know that if I can't provide what you're looking for, if I can't go there with you-- which it feels like I probably won't want to-- I'm sure we can get creative. And I'll figure out a way to help you get your needs met, as long as it doesn't negatively impact me.

KAREN YATES: Okay.

CAITLIN V: Is that okay?

KAREN YATES: Yeah, you know, I just... I realized I, you know, I haven't told you... cause I... I understand that you're hurt... I haven't told you about this part of myself, but I feel a lot of shame about it. Like, I was living a life where it wasn't shameful because I was with a bunch of people, and this was our life. And I lived in a kink community, you know, and then I moved, and then I met you, and I just kind of bottled that up. And... and... yeah, and I just can't, I can't anymore. I'm really sorry.

CAITLIN V: I'm really glad that you came forward, and I don't want you to live with any parts of you bottled up. I love all of you.

KAREN YATES: Okay. I love you too.

KAREN YATES: Wow. Listening to that scene just now, just reminded me of how intense it was to... to play that... play that dialogue with Caitlin. I hope you got something out of it.

If you're interested in learning more about our panelists, go to the show notes. You'll also find there a transcript of this entire episode, along with a link to pictures of that December show at wildandsublime.com.

And next up, this Chicago based musician-comedian has performed several times on the show. Here is Matt Griffo, from our February 2020 show, performing his song "That's The Way I Like it," accompanied by cellist Laila Royale. Enjoy.

[Applause under] Thank you.

Matt Griffo

[Music under] Okay, here we go.

That's the way I like it, that's the way I like it, mmm, that's the way I like it all night long

That's the way I like it, that's the way I like it, oh, that's the way I like it all night long

You can give me a massage, not too hard, not too soft, while regaling me with recent anecdotes

You can do a sexy dance while you take off your pants,

Then snuggle and repeat old movie quotes

Oh, that's the way I like it, oh, that's the way I like it, that's the way I like it all night long

Oh, that's the way I like it, that's the way I like it, oh, that's the way I like it all night long

Oh, I can pick you up right against the wall, if that's something you're into,

Or you can tie up, you can pin me down, you can blindfold me and tell me what to do,

Cuz I'm a switch, yeah! [applause]

That's the way I like it, that's the way I like it, oh, that's the way I like it all night long

Oh, that's the way I like it, that's the way I like it, mmm, that's the way I like it all night long

All right, call out: what's the way that you could like it? [laughter]

What was it? Did you say upside down? Cool. Here we go. I gotta... I gotta... we'll... I'll come back in a second. [laughter]

What you like is what excites me, oh, first I'll ask you nicely,

Oh baby, I want you to have a smile and not a frown

It will be so exciting where the passion that's igniting, and then we'll do it upside down

Oh, that's the way I like it, that's the way I like it, oh, that's the way I like it all night long

Okay, what's another way that you could like it?

Audience Member

Consistently!

Matt Griffo

Consistently? [laughter and applause] You thought about that one. You're like "I got this." All right, all right, consistently. All right.

I'm so into all the things you want to do, oh, baby I like it tasty, so deliciously

It really gets me going when you're into it too, but seriously, I like it if there's consistency

Oh, that's the way I like it, that's the way I like it, oh, that's the way I like it all night long

All right, another way you could like it?

Audience Member

Leather!

Matt Griffo

You say leather? [applause] Yeah, all right. All right, leather. Sure, that works.

Oh, I am so elated by a sexy exploration, so I don't care what it is, or if it's leather

[laughter]

Oh, it's been so delicious when I go and do the dishes,

oh, baby, and then you tie me up with some leather

Oh, that's the way I like it, that's the way I like it, oh, that's the way I like it it all night long

All right, let's do one more. What's one last way? What is it?

Audience Member

Glow in the dark!

Matt Griffo

In the dark?

Audience Member

Glow-in-the-dark!

Matt Griffo

Oh, glow-in-the-dark, that specific. I thought it was that specific, but I was like, "I don't know." I'm gonna share this before I do that one.

The... yesterday, I said, "What's the way that you like...." I was doing a show. And then they said, "Your mom." And then I said, "Listen, listen, you don't know my mom." And she used to have this... a thing called the team. She called it a team. And it was a bunch of guys that... each one did a different household chore for her. [laughter] One was a carpenter-- and I'm not kidding-- one was.... she called Larry the milkman, another one mowed her lawn, and she had a bunch of them. They all knew about each other. And she... I... I said later, I said, mom, I think that you're probably.... you know, you'd be considered polyamorous, at least definitely at that point. And she said, "What's that?" [laughter] And I was like, "Well, it was basically your team that all knew about each other," and she was like, "No, no, no, honey, that's just a team." [laughter] Definitions, guys. Definitions.

All right, here we go. What was it, glow-in-the-dark? Great. All right.

Oh, I love everything you give me inside, oh, I love it when you give me a bite

Oh, I love the chains, and everything you do, and especially when it's glowin’ at night [applause]

Oh, that's the way I like it, that's the way I like it, oh, that's the way I like it all night long

Last time, everybody!

Audience and Matt Griffio

That's the way I like it, oh, that's the way I like, oh, that's the way I like it all night long [applause]

Matt Griffo

[Music ends] Yes! Thank you!

KAREN YATES: Oh, what a great song. You can find more information on Matt Griffo and Leyla Royale in our show notes.

Next episode, dropping in a week, we will have a new segment of "What's Up With That?" where we talk about new and confusing terms in the sexual arena. Plus, a storyteller recounts his organizing a gangbang for his girlfriend, with hilarious results.

And be sure to check out our Patreon site and consider joining our membership program. Starting at just $5 a month, you can get discounts soon-to-be-added merchandise, shout-outs, and more. The link is in our show notes.

[Music under] Wild & Sublime is also sponsored in part by our Sublime Supporter: Chicago-based Full Color Life Therapy. Therapy for all of you, at fullcolorlifetherapy.com. If you would like to be a Sublime Supporter, showcasing you and your business, and supporting us at the same time, contact us at .

[Music ends] And now it's time for my Sermon on the Pubic Mound, where I talk briefly about how the panel segment had been promoted in Chicago last year.

So, originally this segment had been called — when we were doing it in Chicago — it was originally called "I'm Naughtier Than You Think." But I have to be honest, the word "naughty" really makes me cranky, because to me, it implies "bad" or "wrong" or even worse, kind of childishly immature. And the whole implication is that there's something intrinsically wrong with what you want sexually, or it might be a little out there, when really, most likely, whatever you want to do sexually is okay. You know, thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of people throughout time have done, or will do, or what you want to do.

And I think-- I hope-- that we all know by now that if someone else wholeheartedly consents to doing what you wanna do, then everything is okay. And if they don't, please, at least give yourself permission for having the fantasy in the first place.

So, I hereby declare the word "naughty" excised from this show.

[Music under] Thank you for listening. If you know someone who might be interested in this episode, send it to them. And please, if you like what you heard, give us a nice review on your podcast app. I'd like to thank Wild & Sublime associate producer Julia Williams, design guru Jean-Francois Gervais, and intern Alice Asch. Theme Music by David Ben-Porat. Our media sponsor is Rebellious Magazine: Feminist Media, at rebelliousmagazine.com. Follow us on social media @wildandsublime, and sign up for newsletters at wildandsublime.com. See you next week.