#05 | DIY Gangbang

Wild & Sublime Podcast Transcript

#05 | DIY Gangbang

[Wild & Sublime theme music]

ALAN COLORADO: [Music under] It's a very low bar to come to a gangbang at my house. You just have to be sane.

CARRIE JAMESON: If I know you're gonna tell me no when you really mean no, when you say yes, it's fucking hot.

LOGAN PIERCE: You're gonna make a mistake. And if you're not making a mistake, you're probably not trying hard enough.

KAREN YATES: Welcome to Wild & Sublime, a sexy spin on infotainment, no matter your preferences, orientation, or relationship style, based on the popular live Chicago show. Each week, I'll chat about sex and relationships with citizens from the world of sex-positivity, with spicy additions from storytellers and musicians. I'm Karen Yates.

In today's episode, we chat with therapist Carrie Jameson about saying no and hearing no from our sexual partners. And a new segment of "What's Up With That?" where we tackle new or confusing words in the sexual vocabulary. Then, a storyteller recounts how not to organize a gangbang for a girlfriend. Yes, I totally stuck that in the title as clickbait. Plus, my Sermon on the Pubic Mound. Keep listening.

Wild & Sublime is sponsored in part by Uberlube: long-lasting silicone lubricant for sex, sport and style. I highly recommend it. Go to uberlube.com.

[Music ends] Last week in Episode Four, we had a great panel conversation and roleplay about how to ask partners for new things in bed, especially if they might be out of your relationship comfort zone. And if you've not checked that out, please do that, because that episode gave a ton of information about how to set up your "ask." I wanted to add a related, shorter interview today -- from that same December 2019 show -- with therapist Carrie Jameson, about saying no and hearing no from sexual partners. It's sort of an addendum to that panel discussion. Carrie Jameson is a Chicago-based psychotherapist who focuses on diverse sexuality populations. Enjoy.

[Applause] Hi!

CARRIE JAMESON: Hi!

KAREN YATES: Okay. So, rejection. [laughter] Let's go... let's go there! You said that there's an incredibly helpful thing people can do right at the beginning-- even before they get the question out of their mouth. Okay, what is that thing people need to always do before they have a heavy-duty conversation?

CARRIE JAMESON: I call it meta-communicating.

KAREN YATES: Okay.

CARRIE JAMESON: And I didn't make this up. [laughter] But, it's really checking in with yourself, right? "What am I feeling? Am I really anxious? I'm a little anxious right now, as I'm noticing that in my body as I sit here." Right?

KAREN YATES: Right.

CARRIE JAMESON: But then before I ask my partner for something... to just say... "Can I... Karen, like, I wanna ask you about something and I'm really nervous. I'm really afraid you're gonna, you know, think badly of me, or it's gonna change your opinion, and I'm just hoping you can hear this from me."

KAREN YATES: Okay.

CARRIE JAMESON: Right. So, to really kind of meta-communicate what's happening for me as a person. Because what that does is, it's super vulnerable. And you're... it's already vulnerable to ask for something... that you're not sure of the reception. But when we open ourselves vulnerably, people often respond to that. They're like, "Oh, okay, I see that like, you're just really scared."

KAREN YATES: Mmm. Yeah, and it also... it also... it's like, it's almost the pressure relief valve. Inside, you just go "whew."

CARRIE JAMESON: Exactly, exactly.

KAREN YATES: There's something kind of... I... I do it a lot. And I just noticed, like, my whole body just relaxes. So, okay, here's this thing you said to me. And at first, I'm like, "What?" "Yes" is more powerful if you know what your "no" is?

CARRIE JAMESON: Absolutely.

KAREN YATES: Okay. Take it away.

CARRIE JAMESON: I heard... I heard a couple of like, noises from the audience. I can't see any of you because of the lights. [laughter]

KAREN YATES: It's... it's better that way. [laughter]

CARRIE JAMESON: Yeah. How many of you.. I won't see this by a show of hands... but... or just check in with yourself, like, have you ever done something and said yes to something you really didn't wanna do? And then you found yourself in this situation.

KAREN YATES: How about clap? Clap if that's happened to you.

CARRIE JAMESON: Yeah. [applause]

KAREN YATES: Okay.

CARRIE JAMESON: How many of you have ever been with somebody who you felt like... they were in that situation where they had said yes, but they really didn't want to do it? [applause]

CARRIE JAMESON: Yeah. That feels really shitty. I can swear, right?

KAREN YATES: Yeah. [laughter] Fuck yeah, fuck yeah!

CARRIE JAMESON: Whew! So... so, part of the thing is, if I can trust that you have a "no," that makes your "yes" so much more powerful. Because if I know you're gonna tell me "no" when you really mean "no"... when you say "yes," it's fucking hot.

KAREN YATES: Mm-hm.

CARRIE JAMESON: Because like, I know you're 100% in, and 100% in is hot, and it's really sexy. So I think it's something to think about, because it's hard to say no for a lot of people, right? And it's hard to hear a "no," but like... like, we don't get to that hot "yes" unless we actually have a "no."

KAREN YATES: Isn't there an exercise you're gonna do with folks around...?

CARRIE JAMESON: Yeah, yeah. So, turn to somebody next to you-- could be somebody you came with-- and... and just say "no." [laughter] Exactly, you got it. Say "no." [murmurs of "no" from the audience] Mm-hm. Yeah. [laughter]

KAREN YATES: I know, everyone's like, "I'm saying no!" [laughter]

CARRIE JAMESON: I said to Karen, like, “They like it!” I mean, when I do this in my office with clients, like, sometimes people cry. It's that hard for them to say no. And I have them role playing it with me. But I love what happened here, actually. Like, it was kind of fun.

KAREN YATES: Yeah, I know!

CARRIE JAMESON: Like, there's a little nervous energy and stuff, but like, we don't often have permission to say no, right-- from ourselves, or from the other people. So, a lot of us are conditioned to be accommodating, to be polite...

KAREN YATES: Oh, yeah. It sucks.

CARRIE JAMESON: And so, I think there's something about like, giving ourselves permission to say no... and when somebody says no... So I want you to do that again, and the other person just to say thank you.

[audience murmurs]

KAREN YATES: Yeah! [laughter] Yeah, different energy. Totally different energy. Okay, so what was the point of that?

CARRIE JAMESON: I mean, I think part of it is just... if I say no to somebody and say thank you, I know as the person saying no, I feel... I feel like, a little relief, like they're not mad at me. Because that's what I'm afraid... I'm afraid if I say no to you, you're gonna be mad at me, you're gonna be disappointed, you're gonna hold it against me. But if they can receive it graciously, it creates the space to actually have the "no."

KAREN YATES: It's also reminding me... I think when we were talking, I talked about what happens at cuddle parties, which is when you... when you ask some... someone for a hug, or to touch someone, and they say, "no, thank you." You say no, and you say "Thank you for taking care of yourself." It's sort of like a validation, like, "Hey, you're taking care of yourself and I respect that."

CARRIE JAMESON: Yeah, absolutely.

KAREN YATES: So, one thing I want to dig in with you for just a brief moment is, how do you tell if you are the person who's receiving the query... and you're rejecting, you don't wanna do it... how can you discern between whether this is something that you should be "GGG," good, giving, and game, as Dan Savage would say? Or, that you should actually try? Versus hard "no." Like, how do you discern in your body of, like...?

CARRIE JAMESON: Sometimes it's really hard to tell.

KAREN YATES: Yeah.

CARRIE JAMESON: Right. So, I mean, I think there's something about just being honest with the person that's asking you. Like, "Wow, like, I noticed, my body has a big 'no' to this." It might be something that you know is an absolute "no," something you don't wanna do, it's a hard limit, and that's okay. Like, everybody gets to have those. And then if it's something that... there might be something about sitting with it in yourself. And like, what is it that... let's say somebody says, "I want to be tied up." Right. And you're like, "I don't wanna tie you up. That's not my thing." Right. Well, you could have a conversation with them about what about that is appealing to you, right?

KAREN YATES: Mm-hm.

CARRIE JAMESON: "I'm.. I don't think I'm into rope, but maybe there's something else," or there's something adjacent to it even, that you could try.

KAREN YATES: Right, it's like... it's like, how do you build consensus where both of you are totally into it?

CARRIE JAMESON: Mm-hm.

KAREN YATES: Can you tell that... in terms of like, talking about the creative solutions?

CARRIE JAMESON: Yeah, like, you can also come up with creative solutions. So, I was talking with somebody that didn't like anal play, and so they decided to do that in the shower instead, because what they really didn't like was the dirtiness, right. And so doing it in the shower, they're like, "great!" It's like, everything's just... gets washed away. And so they were totally fine with it, but it took awhile to get to that place where they were okay with it. It still might not be their favorite thing, but that was a GGG kind of thing.

KAREN YATES: Right, yeah.

CARRIE JAMESON: Yeah.

KAREN YATES: Great. Thank you so much, Carrie.

CARRIE JAMESON: You're welcome!

KAREN YATES: Right on. Thank you! [applause]

KAREN YATES: For more information on Carrie Jameson, go to our show notes. Carrie has also been a member of the Kink Clinical Practice Guidelines Team, and I'm hoping to have her back on the show in the future to talk a little bit more about that. If you're wondering, "what is that and why should I care?" it's basically a... a document that's been developed to help therapists and medical professionals become more aware of the kink community or people with differing sexual viewpoints and practices to help professionals deliver more competent care, and that's kind of a big deal. And I really wanna be getting into that more on the show in the future, so that folks... when they're looking for therapists or looking for medical professionals... they know the type of professionals to be looking for-- people that can actually support them as they explore their sexuality. So hopefully we'll be having Carrie on... back on in a bit.

A few times in this podcast, I've mentioned that our website has some very good articles about sex-positive matters. In Episode Three, on my Sermon on the Pubic Mound, I talked a bit about the ongoing sexual journey. And I wanted to let you know there's a really good article called expanding your sexual horizons, written by Bruce, a former guest on the show. He gives some really cool writing exercises you can do to deepen your sexual excavation, and I encourage you to check it out at wildandsublime.com. And, we're always looking for folks to submit to our website. Check out our show notes in the link to the article, and also our submission guidelines. If you end up being published on our site, you will also get a shout-out on the podcast, so check that out.

Today, we have a new edition of "What's Up With That?" a recurring segment about sex terms that might need more explaining. In Episode Three, we talked about "cisgender," "gender identity," and more, in a fantastic conversation with Logan Pierce. He's returning today to talk about a related term: "transgender." Logan is the program coordinator of Trans Mentor: the first mentorship program for trans youth in the United States, at Lurie Children's Hospital, here in Chicago. Through Lurie, Logan frequently teaches sexual health education, facilitating gender inclusivity trainings, and leading groups for transgender, non-binary, and gender expansive youth. Have a listen.

Hey, Logan! Welcome back.

LOGAN PIERCE: Thank you for having me back! Hello, hello.

KAREN YATES: Hi! So Logan: "transgender." What's up with that?

LOGAN PIERCE: [laughter] Where to start? Yeah. So, "transgender," probably one of my favorite words, is going to be Latin for "across from."

KAREN YATES: Okay.

LOGAN PIERCE: So "trans" is Latin for “across from.” And once again, the simplest definition I can give is going to be: "someone that does not align with the sex they were assigned with at birth." And I know we spoke a little bit last time I was here about what sex assigned at birth means, so someone that does not agree with what the doctor, or whoever birthed them, gave them their birth certificate.

KAREN YATES: Okay. That makes sense to me. So, when someone doesn't agree, what... I don't know... if you don't agree, then what happens?

LOGAN PIERCE: Well, one thing that we say too, is there is absolutely no one way to be... or, no one way to transition.

KAREN YATES: Mm-hm.

LOGAN PIERCE: Therefore, there is absolutely no one way to be transgender. So, this is what we call an umbrella term.

KAREN YATES: Okay, let me... let me butt in and say, when you say "transition," I'm assuming you mean transitioning from the gender you're feeling inside... your gender identity, the word we... the phrase we came up with last last show... the... when you're moving... when you're really saying, "I want to... I want to... I want to express the gender identity I'm feeling inside, I want to express it to the outside world." And you would... you would call that transitioning, correct?

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah. In a certain sense, for sure. I think that there isn't one direct way to transition, and so a lot of people do it in what feels best to them. Some people can start a transition and then not be out with their gender expression. But, yeah, that is typically how it goes. We just... we want this affirmed feeling of who we are on the inside to be shown on the outside.

KAREN YATES: Okay! And so, lead me through the different varieties of being transgender.

LOGAN PIERCE: So, when we... when we talk about... I'll talk about the word transition for a little bit. There are three major ways that we see a transition happening. Someone can elect to do one of these, none of these, all three of these... it's really up to them and what feels good. But what we typically see is going to be social, legal, and medical.

KAREN YATES: Social, legal and medical ways of transitioning. Okay.

LOGAN PIERCE: And so, to break that down: social... that is going to be, you know, maybe a change of appearance. So, like... like you mentioned, gender expression. So that could be a haircut, that could be a change of clothes, that could be "Hey, it feels most affirming when you call me Logan." Or, "I go by he/him/his pronouns." That can be a social change.

KAREN YATES: And this can be massive, like a massive step, you know.

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah. And I always say, this is going to cost that person going through a transition a bit of money, but it costs you zero dollars and zero cents to be respectful.

KAREN YATES: [laughter] I love it. So as you see friends and companions and acquaintances, people on the street... expressing themselves differently... their gender differently than maybe they did a month ago, what... what would you say? What would you say? Would you... like, what if you're curious? How do you approach a person?

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah.

KAREN YATES: Is there anything to say? Like, that's respectful?

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah. I think the most respectful thing is to not say anything at all, to be honest.

KAREN YATES: Okay.

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah, I think this is information that someone should provide to you when they feel comfortable.

KAREN YATES: Okay.

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah. So even though we might have known this person in the past, and they look drastically different now, you wanna wait for them to have that comfortability to talk to you. You could also say, you know... pay them a compliment. There's no harm in paying someone a compliment, and maybe it'll bring up conversation, right? "Hey, I really like what you're doing with your hair. How have you been?" Right?

KAREN YATES: That's nice. That's really subtle, and it's... it's really beautiful. It's like, beautifully supportive.

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah. Then we also say too, that, if this is gonna be an interaction with someone that you're not gonna have again, paying a compliment towards them just because we see that they are transgender, right, is just another way of kind of, butting into someone else's information.

KAREN YATES: So that's... yeah, it's more subtle. It's like... it's kind of, I don't know, it's invasive.

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah.

KAREN YATES: It becomes... if it's a stranger, it's invasive, but if it's a friend, it's... it can be very supportive. Can I also ask: what if you yourself are expressing yourself differently? And, you know, I know this happens for a lot of trans folk, where, like, you know, putting it out there and... and people, you know, making comments... like, what is the best... in your estimation what's the best way to create safety for yourself?

LOGAN PIERCE: Sure, yeah. Well, so I myself am transgender. I'm very open about that. I always say, you know, when I was delivered, the doctor said, "It's a girl!" And I said, "No, I'm not!" so... [laughter] But, in my experience... and it's gonna be different for everyone... I think, take your time. Take your time with what feels right to you. I know a lot of folks, you know, they... they come to this realization of self, or maybe they feel very affirmed or clear-headed about how they see themselves inside-- gender identity, kind of like the term we've talked about before.

And when it comes to that expression piece, when it comes to that social piece, don't do anything that you're not ready for. Humans are naturally curious. People... people will ask questions that may feel wrong or inappropriate. And so, it's also about creating that safety net, that community for you. Do you have someone to turn to? Do you have someone to talk to? If you're a kiddo, who's your safe adult?

KAREN YATES: Right, right. And I have... I have this deep sense, Logan, you're gonna be back on the show to talk more about trans mentorship in the future. So we're gonna get back to that.

LOGAN PIERCE: Thank you!

KAREN YATES: So, oh, my gosh, we've just opened up... we just opened up everything here. Okay, what's... what's the next thing you'd like to talk about here, with this idea of transgender and all of the umbrella terms... or the terms that... within the umbrella of transgender?

LOGAN PIERCE: Just to briefly mention too-- I talk about social, there's also legal and medical. Legal, that is going to be the change in your identification, which can take upwards of a couple of months. There are still some states that you cannot even legally change your identification to match your affirmed name and pronouns... as well as medical procedures that you can elect to have that feel affirming to you.

KAREN YATES: Okay.

LOGAN PIERCE: We also say that there's not just one surgery that turns Tommy into Vanessa, but a plethora of options that people can choose, including hormones and different things like that. But in the term "transgender," that is going to be a large umbrella term, that... that's gonna house a bunch of different ways that people identify and express themselves-- housing terms like transmasculine and transfeminine.

KAREN YATES: Okay, okay, I'm gonna... I'm gonna jump in. Alright, cuz this is like... I was talking to you before about like, this is where I get very... I get, you know, I wanna... I wanna say the right thing, you know, I want... and, I mean, I'm the host of this show, so it's like, I wanna get it right!

LOGAN PIERCE: Right, right.

KAREN YATES: What... what is... what's the difference between a trans man and being transmasculine? Is there a difference? Is it just... is it just, I don't know, a different word?

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah. So I think, kinda like what I mentioned before, every single term is going to mean a little something different to the next person.

KAREN YATES: Okay.

LOGAN PIERCE: So for some people, they might see the... the term trans man and transmasculine and say, "Oh, those are interchangeable." Right?

KAREN YATES: Okay.

LOGAN PIERCE: And... and that person... or you could have two people that go, "I say trans man, because I am a man, right, and I am trans." Some people might see transmasculine and say, "First and foremost, I am a transgender person, and the way that I present is masculine." So some people can say, "I'm not a man, but I present masculinely." And some people say, "I am a man" or "I'm a transgender person of a masculine experience."

KAREN YATES: So, I mean, one of the things I'm thinking... and the first thing that came across is this idea that, first we... we... it sounds to me like, take the cues from the person that you're interacting with... about, say, however they wanna be identified. Don't make assumptions.

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah. You know what they say about people who assume.

KAREN YATES: Right. Yeah. [laughter] But in the larger context, say, when you're not necessarily talking about a single person, is the term trans man, trans woman, transgender woman... does it... I... I know in a certain regard, we're moving to... it feels to me like we're moving to a place in the world where all of these labels are less and less important. But... but they still are important for... I mean, they are important because these have been sort of hard-won achievements for folks to go forward in society to make their way, and so to like... I'm kind of like... I'm like, "Will I edit all of this out because I sound like I'm babbling?" [laughter] But there seems to be... kind of, getting it right. That's what I... I'm interested in here.

LOGAN PIERCE: Mm-hm. Yeah, yeah. Like I... like we said before, I mean, transgender, that's gonnna be an umbrella word for so many different things. That means so many... you know, we have so many different definitions for... for everyone. And, you know, we haven't even talked about, you know, what non-binary means, gender non-conforming... and that's under the trans umbrella as well.

KAREN YATES: Mmm.

LOGAN PIERCE: Genderqueer... all of these things. And not only that, but this is just what we say in the English language. All around the world, they have their own terms and definitions, and maybe we would say transgender to describe someone in a... you know, different community, but that's not how they see themselves, right?

KAREN YATES: Right.

LOGAN PIERCE: And so, it's like, the possibility to make a mistake is very much out there, right.

KAREN YATES: So... okay, so, yeah, so this leads me to: when you are working with, say, teachers in the school systems, adults that are gonna be interacting with... with the kids, what do you tell folks around all of these various... what do you just say?

LOGAN PIERCE: Absolutely. You're gonna make a mistake, and if you're not making a mistake, you're probably not trying hard enough.

KAREN YATES: Okay! So, it's validation, like... it's just like, "Hey, you know, we've gotta connect with each other, we've gotta communicate, we're gonna get it wrong." Right?

LOGAN PIERCE: Absolutely, absolutely. I'm a big fan of teaching old dogs new tricks. But the joke is, this trick has been around since the beginning of time. [laughter]

KAREN YATES: So, you have some... you have a little formula when you mess up.

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah!

KAREN YATES: What is that formula?

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah, when we mess up... which is going to happen, right? Even myself as a transgender person, I mess up people's pronouns sometimes. I make assumptions about people's identities or expressions. And so, when we mess up, we have four easy steps. We wanna: One, apologize. Two, correct ourselves. Three, move on! And four -- and what can be seen as one of the most important steps -- is practice.

KAREN YATES: So, apologize. Next one is...

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah, we wanna make that a quick apology. We don't wanna make someone sit in it, because if I... if I use the wrong pronouns for you, ones that didn't feel affirming, and I turned to you and I go, "I'm just so sorry, it's just so hard for me. I've known you for so long. I knew you before you used these pronouns." What am I doing to you? Exactly. [laughter] And... yeah, and you did a little crying face for those that... [laughter]

KAREN YATES: [imitating crying] Wah, wah, wah!

LOGAN PIERCE: Yes! Mm-hm. I'm making it about me. I'm taking your uncomfortability, my wrong answer, and I'm now making you sit in it. Not only that, I'm making it so you'll probably apologize for me, for getting it wrong.

KAREN YATES: Right.

LOGAN PIERCE: And so, next step, we wanna correct ourselves, because we know what the right answer is and we wanna show that person that we're speaking to that we know what the correct answer is.

KAREN YATES: Mm-hm.

LOGAN PIERCE: So, if I were talking to you... May I use you as an example, Karen?

KAREN YATES: Absolutely.

LOGAN PIERCE: Awesome. I'm talking about Karen and I'm saying, "He did this thing... Oh, she!" and then I wanna move on with conversation. And that's as simple as it can be.

KAREN YATES: Okay.

LOGAN PIERCE: Yeah. We're not sitting in it. You heard me make that mistake, I apologize, I corrected myself because I know what the right answer is, and then we carried on with our conversation. And then number four: practice.

KAREN YATES: Practice.

LOGAN PIERCE: If in six months, I'm still making that same mistake again, that means I am not practicing hard enough.

KAREN YATES: Thank you so much! "Transgender." It's been a really full conversation. I appreciate it so much. Thank you, Logan, and you will be on in another couple of episodes again, where we will be tackling the term "non-binary." Thank you.

LOGAN PIERCE: Thank you. Thank you so much.

KAREN YATES: You'll find information about Lurie Children's Hospital and their TransMentor Program in our show notes, along with a transcript of this entire episode. Logan will return in a few weeks to continue answering my pressing questions about "What's Up With That?"

[Music under] We have started getting some very nice comments on social media, and some very nice reviews. I'm just really grateful for listener feedback. Pablogan said on FetLife -- and FetLife, by the way, is basically the FaceBook of the fetish community... "The first two episodes were really wonderful. It's great how you were able to give it the feel of a live show to some extent. The panelists were fantastic and the songs and storytellers were awesome. The Sermon on the Pubic Mound at the end of each was also powerful and real. I hope you keep podcasting." And then we got some nice comments on one of the podcast apps. So, thank you so much, folks.

You know, if you've never made a podcast, quite honestly, it's kind of like shouting into the void. You know, I come from live performance -- you know, you walk out onto a stage and you know exactly what's going on with the audience. You know exactly what mood they're in, and you begin the relationship from there. And with podcasts, it's not like that. It is not like that. [laughter] It's just you and the mic. So, I really appreciate the comments, and keep them coming. And if you want to email, email at .

Storyteller Alan Colorado first appeared on the show in May 2019. I had been seeing him around at various sex-positive events in Chicago, and then finally got to see him perform and immediately asked him to be on the show. So he was on in May. And then, so I kept seeing him around, and he said, "I've got another story." And I said, "Oh, yeah, what's it about?" And he goes, "It's about a gangbang." And I said, "Really?" [laughter] "You can come back on the show!" And I absolutely love this story.

And the other thing I have to say about Alan is, Alan... [laughter] Alan has a very large, like, lumberjack beard, and I remember talking with him at a party, and I'm like, "God, Alan, you smell really good. What is your cologne?" And he said, he goes, "Actually, that's my beard conditioner." And it's... it's like, this really great, like, spicy, like -- I don't know... So, if you ever see him around in Chicago, ask him what his beard conditioner is, if you have a beard, and maybe you can get some tips on that. This is from our November 2019 show.

ALAN COLORADO: [Applause] All right, I'm gonna be giving you guys some pro tips if you're gonna throw your own gangbang. [laughter] So, pro tip number one: make sure you're doing it with someone who's really great. I used to see this girl Bri, and she was just amazing. She was real short, really thick, these giant tits, and she had tattoos all over, tattoos on her hands and stuff, and she had this black, Bettie Page hair. It was like, really long. And these red lips -- her makeup was always on point. Oh, she was beautiful, right? And we used to do all kinds of like, very exciting sexual stuff. There's other stories to tell, but today it's the gangbang.

So she's like, "Let's... let's have this gangbang. I'm like, "Yeah, that's that sounds great, but I don't really know enough freaks to like, populate this fantasy for you." And she's like, "Well, no problem. Just go on Craigslist and find all the guys there." And you can't do that because of SESTA anymore, so thank you no one. [laughter] Anyway, this is gonna be pro tip number two... is, don't get everyone for your gangbang off of Craigslist. [laughter] So, I go on there and I make my ad, and it's got her up there, and I am just inundated with the craziest emails -- hundreds of them -- that I've ever seen in my life. And I'm thinking to myself, "I'm inviting these people into my living room?" But then I think to myself, "Well, the whole plan is that I'm gonna do all this, find all these people, and she's like, not even gonna know who they are until like the day of..." And then I got horny again and I was like, "Okay, yeah, they can come to my house." [laughter]

So, yeah. So, the day comes of... basically the one... the one criteri -- it's a very low bar to come to a gangbang at my house. You just have to be sane. Like, you just have to have general sanity. So, remember that! Anyway, the day comes, and I tell everybody... I've narrowed it down to like, ten guys, because I think that's the maximum that my house could possibly hold. So, I told them all: "You... you gotta meet me across the street at this bus stop that's right across the street from my house. And if you're not there, it's given time, then forget it, because I'm not making two trips." [laughter]

And so, I go out there, and then... so the whole thing is too... so I tie her up... she's all naked and tied up, and she's got the gag and the blindfold. I'm like, "Don't go anywhere," And she's like, [imitating someone talking around a gag] "Fuck you," [laughter] And then... so, I go out across the street, right? And there they are. There's only four of them. So this is the next protip, is always invite way more people than you actually want. [laughter] Because out of ten, there's four people. So first, we got the guy who's like, this middle-aged -- looks like a dad from the suburbs. Like, he looks like he works at a boring job, and he looks very bored right now. [laughter] And then the next guy is like, this skater guy who looks cooler than me, and more relaxed than anyone else here, like he does this all the time. I don't know.

The next guy is this guy that came from the beach, and I know that cuz he texted me earlier that day and was like, "Hey, I'm gonna be coming from the beach." And really, he... when I thought about that, I... he did say in his first email that he was coming from the beach. And sure enough, he had like, his beach shirt on, and he had a cooler with him, and I was like, "This is the fucking beach guy." [laughter] Also, just forget it, never find out what's in the cooler. [laughter] So if you're thinking that now, just forget it. So, and then the last guy is my favorite. He's this guy who really misrepresented how old he was. [laughter] He's like, 19 or 20, but said he was much older, and he is like, going from foot to foot, and he's doing like, a nervous Winnie the Pooh kinda thing with his hands. And every time he speaks, it's like, in this breathless voice, he's like, "Hello. That's good. Thank you for..." [laughter] Or... or, and I'm just like, "Oh my god, you're in so much trouble." Because I know it's across the street. So then I'm like, "All right, everybody, come on, let's go!"

And so then, I take them into my apartment building, and we're walking down the hall, and that's when everything kinda goes into slow motion. [“Also sprach Zarathustra" by Richard Strauss, a.k.a. the theme from 2001: A Space Odyssey plays under] And it's sort of like, this... "astronauts walking towards the space shuttle" kind of time. [laughter] And like, I open the door, and this is the best moment of the gangbang for me, because I'm not gonna be able to do a lot of the ganging and the banging. The whole time I'm gonna be looking out and making sure she's not being killed, you know, and that she's still having a good time. But then, I look over here at these people and their jaws, their... the gum falls out of their mouth, you know? And I'm like -- and we all know this is about power, right? That the gangbang is a hot woman at the power of these bloodthirsty men, but no one talks about the power I have over those men! I don't need to have sex anymore! [laughter] You can have sex with her! I don't know. Okay, enough. [music ends]

So then, we get to work. [laughter and applause] Then it's time to get to work right? The guy from the beach takes off his shoes, no shit, sand goes everywhere. [laughter] That is absolutely true. I'm like, "Holy shit." All right, so then like, oh man, so I'm gonna go crazy with this, a lot of sexy stuff going on. It's a blowjob action in the... the middle-aged guy gets a blowjob for like, two minutes and then is like, "Hey, I gotta go back to my car for something," and I'm like, "Okay," and then we never see him again. [laughter] Again, we'll never know why. And then, okay, so then like, things are escalating, we got the skater and the beach guy... are like, really, you know, fucking Bri really good, two ends... And I'm like, "Are you doing okay?" And she's all, [imitating someone talking with dick in mouth] "I'm great." [laughter]

And then, here's the thing, here's the thing: so our little friend, our little nervous guy, bless his heart, he's having a really hard time, and he can't perform in the way that he clearly wants to. And so he comes over to me and he like, shakes my hand. He's like, "Thank you for having me over, but I'm gonna... I'm gonna go ahead and leave. And I'm like, "Totally cool, no problem." And then he walks over to Bri, who's in the middle of sex acts with a few people, and he grabs her free hand, and is like... and kisses it like he's some sort of knight, [laughter and applause] and he goes [kissing sound]... and he's like, "You're beautiful, you're a queen, thank you." And then he like, backs out of the room. And she, like... [popping sound] pops a dick out of her mouth and looks as though she's gonna say something to me, but just to make a face to me. And she's like, "Who did you... what is this?" [laughter] To which I am like, “Hey, you wanted me to pick everybody!” You know what I mean? Surprise on you.

So at this point, the number is way lower now, it's a much more manageable number. And so we're all in there at this point, and oh, now there's lots of fucking, people are popping their loads, it's great. And we... the whole thing lasted like 20 minutes because people are just cranked up to eleven, and like, "I just have to make sure I do all these things, then get the hell out of this strange guy's apartment." I think my apartment’s pretty cool, actually. [laughter] Anyway, the thing is that no one got murdered, and really that is the last -- that really is the last pro tip. Because truth be told, and I'm sure there are sex educators in this room who can call out that there are some dangerous things that actually went on in this story... it was not perfect, and if I could do that again, I would do it differently. But, as you're out there and you're doing your own gangbangs, which is I guess what I'm telling you to do... [laughter] just make sure safety is number one, because there's no more important thing you can do in this world than take care of the people that you love. Thank you. [laughter and applause]

KAREN YATES: For more information on Alan Colorado, see our show notes.

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[Music ends] It's time for my Sermon on the Pubic Mound. I just came back from a trip out west with a friend hiking, and it was completely awesome. We went out to Montana, and it was a long trip -- it waslonger than I have spent on vacation, I think, since I was a kid. And I was really able to relax fully, which is something that is kind of challenging for me. And I don't mean like, "relaxed," but I mean, like, really relaxed, you know, like my shoulders were relaxed, and my hips were relaxed, and my butt was relaxed, and my neck was relaxed, and I was breathing from my diaphragm, you know, so I was like, completely relaxed. And by the way, it took me a good six days to even get to that state.

But in coming back home, and jumping back into work... I saw almost immediately the tension starting to return. And, as I've mentioned previously, you know, I'm a somatic sex educator, among many things, and somatic sex education is about teaching people to be more connected to their bodies during sex, to help people sense their bodies from the inside. And I became interested in somatic work because I've been interested in the body for most of my life. You know, after I broke various addictions that had kept me completely disconnected from my body, I found that my body really was the best barometer in helping me understand when something was going well, or something was not going well. And somatic work in general -- like yoga or mindful breathing -- can really help people orient to their bodies, and doing that work slowly resets the nervous system after trauma. And by the way, culture itself can be traumatizing, especially if you're a person of color, or someone who is not included in the dominant culture.

So, in returning home, I realized that I had gotten to a place with the tension that almost felt like a tipping point. I don't want to go back to where I was before I left, of enduring certain work habits, or more importantly, entertaining beliefs about achievement that place me at a disadvantage. And one of the most critical elements in all of this is that I need to bring my attention consistently back to the now -- not set at some nebulous future point -- and ask myself if I'm enjoying the process, and if I'm not, what can I do to adjust or shift my thinking, or shift my behavior in the moment, that will lead me to more enjoyment and pleasure?

Now, this is exactly the same as sex. If you're not relaxed, or if you are tense, are you in the moment? Can you bring your attention back to the now and gently ask yourself, what can you do to bring yourself more pleasure? Can you breathe more slowly? Can you take the pressure off of yourself? Can you communicate some need to a partner? Now, I'm gonna continue to come back to the body during the show and in these sermons, because I really do not know of a better compass to ascertaining the truth of something for ourselves. Much of the time we complicate, and there can really be a reassuring simplicity in falling back into our bodies to give us direction. See you next week.

[Music under] Thank you for listening. If you know someone who might be interested in this episode, send it to them. And please, if you like what you heard, give us a nice review on your podcast app. I'd like to thank Wild & Sublime Associate Producer Julia Williams, design guru Jean-Francois Gervais, and intern Alice Asch. This is Alice's last week as intern. Thank you so much. We bid you a heartfelt adieu. Theme music by David Ben-Porat. Our media sponsor is Rebellious Magazine: Feminist Media at rebelliousmagazine.com. Follow us on social media @wildandsublime, and sign up for newsletters at wildandsublime.com.