#S2E33 | “How do you move a fantasy into real life?”

Wild & Sublime Podcast Transcript

#S2E33 | "How Do You Move a Fantasy Into Real Life?"

[Wild & Sublime theme music]

Matthew Amador: And if you look at a lot of folks, some fantasy stuff — like, you look at a lot of porn, some of it does seem hot, but then in real life, like, I want whoever's delivering me my pizza to actually give me my pizza.

Karen Yates: Welcome to Wild & Sublime, a sexy spin on infotainment®, no matter your preferences, orientation, or relationship style, based on the popular live Chicago show. Each week, I'll chat about sex and relationships with citizens from the world of sex positivity. You'll hear meaningful conversation, dialogues that go deeper, and information that can help you become more free in your sexual expression. I'm sex educator Karen Yates. This week, our panel gives one listener tips about moving desire into action. Keep listening.

Well, I must say, recent Q&A sessions in our Afterglow membership site on Patreon have been outstanding. Chats about how to deal with overly flirtatious partners, age discrepancy in relationships, how to Dom correctly, deep existential conversations about what to do if you're starting to date again but the pandemic has changed everything. One of these months, those fantastic dialogues with sexperts, therapists, writers, and more might make it to the podcast — but wouldn't you rather listen to them now? For as little as $5 a month, you get a monthly panel conversation where you, the Afterglow subscriber, can ask the questions. For $10 a month, you can join in live. Add in my audio creator notes for each episode and more, and you've got some nice benefits. Plus, you would be helping us tremendously with the weekly expenses of bringing this podcast to you, a glorious sex-positive listener. If commitment is not your thing, if you like your sexy quick and easy, you can also throw some bucks into the shiny tip jar, which is located in the show notes, along with the link to Patreon. I thank you.

And speaking of Patreon listeners, way back in March, we got a great question about how to make a fantasy an IRL experience — which, if you can manage it, can be quite satisfying, as well as a confidence booster, because you took something out of the recesses of your mind and made it happen for yourself. And maybe, as you've contemplated your sexual existence these past number of months, a lot has gotten stored up in those recesses. You'll be hearing from recurring guests today: Matthew Amador, psychotherapist for love, sex, and gender rebels; somatic psychotherapist Elmo Painter, and psychotherapist and intimacy coach Brandon Hunter-Haydon. Enjoy.

For Matthew: "When and how do you move a fantasy into real life? I have something kinky I want to do, have a fuck buddy, but they are probably not the person to do it with. It feels like I'm 10 miles from where I want to get to, and it's 4am and I don't have any money! Signed, #MyFeetHurt." [laughs]

Matthew Amador: Damn. Okay. Well, if you're 10 miles from where you want to go to, and it's 4am and you have no money, you might be near a gas station or a rest spot. So chances are, you're there! You're golden. You're ready to make some of these fantasies kind of happen. Seriously, okay, so when to bring it into life? You know, there may never actually be a perfect time. So I'm a big fan of just kind of locating where you're at within this scenario. Like, making sure the kitchen is in good shape before you're gonna start cooking. Because a lot of times, we start thinking about — well, a lot of things in life, especially fantasies — sometimes we can round up. Like, it's safe enough, or it's good enough. And sometimes that can be good, and sometimes that — hmm, we might round up a little too much. So I'm always curious about where people are in the moment. And that can go from something that's more just tangible, like a physical sense of rounding up that something's good enough, and, like, an emotional place of rounding up. Like the physical — okay, you got all the accoutrements? You got what you need going on? Make sure you have that. Because it's a big difference — like, if I'm on vacation and I forget sunglasses, I can go buy some sunglasses. But like, if I'm tied up, and there's like a toy, but there's no lubrication, or if there's a ball gag, or there's something that's kind of like, restricting my ability to speak, and I haven't actually created a safe word, or a nonverbal safe word — these are things that, it's not good to round up then. These are things that we actually kind of needed! We kind of needed, before we actually got things going on. So I'd be curious about that.

I'd also be curious: so if you have that, like, the physical stuff taken care of, just make sure it's there, and I guess that might even include, like: Okay, am I cool with understanding any legal ramifications? Is everything legal? Everyone that might be involved? Can they give consent? Is consent cool? Awesome. Then I would kind of just look in to see where they are, emotionally, in the moment. Like, are they nervous about it? Or just totally normal? Are they shameful about it still? Going into it with some shame? Because this can totally influence — well, who they're going to ask, and if they're going to have a good time. I'm kind of curious — they said they have a fuck buddy that they may not want to ask if they want to do this. And that kind of makes me curious. Have they said they're not into it? Or are they not that type? Or are you kind of concerned that they're gonna pass judgment on this? Would you rather have, like, a safe sandbox you can go play in over here? And then if you like it, then you can kind of bring it back and see if it ports over to this relationship? So that's what I'd be curious about: kind of just where they are, physically and internally.

Karen Yates: Brandon or Elmo?

Brandon Hunter-Haydon: I think what comes up for me is that — just keep in mind that there's a difference between a fantasy and desire. You're allowed to have both, right? But a fantasy is something that turns you on, that carries some energy, has some 'zhush,' some crackle inside you, and that lives in you. And that is yours. There's absolutely no judgment or shame. I don't care what it is. If it's something that's a part of your internal world, then that's a manifestation of some of your energy, right? Your erotic energy, of something in the world. And a desire is something that you really want to act out. And that there's different gradients for actually integrating that. These are just a few examples. Some ways that people might tier this in a dynamic is to first bring it up, and just bring it up as a fantasy. This is something that I think about sometimes, that I get excitement or pleasure from. I'm not even saying that I want to do it. I'm not saying I want to do it with you, necessarily. But just hear this out loud. That alone is kind of a vulnerable, and sometimes really hot, thing to do, just to voice a fantasy that you have and have that witnessed by someone. And not only to not be judged — maybe that person thinks it's hot. Doesn't mean that they necessarily want to do it. But to have somebody be like, 'Yeah, that's got some spice!' You know, that can be really gratifying in its own way. Then you can take it on so many different levels. Sometimes people like to narrate their fantasies while doing mutual masturbation, or narrate their fantasies, or even play with a little bit of, maybe some other role, of whatever they have in that fantasy, or describing a scenario, describing sensations while having vanilla sex. And that like, totally keys up their vanilla sex. And so there's different ways of bringing it in, maybe working with what already works, working with what you have, that has a lot of carrying power in the dynamic, but finding a way to thread it in a little bit. So, those are just some ideas of maybe bringing it into some current dynamics.

Karen Yates: Fantastic. Elmo.

Elmo Painter: I think the only element that I would add is, I'm wondering if this person is looking for the right person to do this with? I don't know if — that's what I kind of got from the question. So the only thing I would add is, whatever fantasy you have, there are thousands of other people who have similar fantasies. So you can, you know, go on FetLife, or you can look up classes in your area. That can be a really good way to meet people with similar interests. There are munches, kinky socials — it will take some googling on your part, but finding those communities that have shared interests — it's out there. I mean, there's a community for everything.

Matthew Amador: I'm going to piggyback and just add on that there are some things that, you know, maybe won't be amazing as you fantasize about it, the first time you do it. So I hope this person has some compassion for themselves, too. If they're interested in it, maybe try it again if it doesn't completely hit a home run for them. Also, just because it doesn't hit a home run for them doesn't mean it still can't live on in fantasy. Some things are amazing in fantasy, and may not translate into the real world. I mean, there are plenty of things that are great in theory, but may not translate into real — communism isn't always great when you try to translate it into real life. There are lots of books I can think about that don't translate very well, when people try to make them into movies. Some things just may not translate. And if you look at a lot of — well, some fantasy stuff, like, you look at a lot of porn, some of it does seem hot, but then in real life, like, I want whoever's giving me my pizza to actually give me my pizza. If my doctor tried to manhandle me, I would be — No! I'm actually here for something else, and I gotta go! So, some things live in certain places, and again, may not translate over one to one.

Karen Yates: Excellent, sage advice, Matthew Amador.

Elmo Painter: Matthew, I love what you just said about books translating to movies. I'm putting that in my pocket and keeping that forever, with fantasies and reality. That's just perfect.

Karen Yates: Actually, I'm loving the, 'Sometimes you just want the pizza.'

Matthew Amador: Sometimes you just want the pizza.

Karen Yates: [laughing] Pizza...

Matthew Amador: I want pizza and ranch dressing. That's just what I want. This is my sex today, is pizza and ranch dressing.

Karen Yates: [laughing] This pizza is my sex.

Matthew Amador: Elmo, thank you. I'm glad that that resonated. That makes me feel a little warm inside. Thank you.

Karen Yates: Oh, here we go. Let's see, we've got a chat coming up here. "A couple of times" — this is from our Afterglow participant — "A couple of times, the idea of shame has come up. Anything in particular to address that for someone?" How does one address shame?

Elmo Painter: A really big antidote to shame is self-compassion, and also universality. So, finding other people who have experienced what you've experienced, finding other people who — or even just thinking and connecting, even mentally, thinking about other people who might be going through what you're going through. Those things can really help alleviate shame, and increase self-compassion.

Karen Yates: Wonderful.

Matthew Amador: Agreed. Compassion is an amazing antidote for shame. Because then sometimes we feel shameful about feeling shameful — like, "Ugh, shouldn't I be there already? Shouldn't I just already be over this stuff? How old am I? I should know better by now." And — no. No, then you're just creating like a mobius strip, like the snake that eats its own tail type of thing. And having some kind of compassion for yourself, being like, "Okay, well, this is where I am right now. This is where I am." That's step one.

Karen Yates: Brandon.

Brandon Hunter-Haydon: Yeah, just to riff off of that, I think there's a piece of just remembering that shame is an experience. And it's not an identity. It's not who you are. I think noticing the shame for what it is, as it occurs — that shame is an experience that one might be having in the moment, and like all moments cannot last forever. It cannot sustain itself indefinitely. Not to say that people can't struggle with it in a chronic way. Certainly, I think a lot of us do. But shame also rarely survives excoriation. By that, I mean, bringing it out into the light. To riff again off of some of the mutuality and the universality — finding kinship in other people, but also, I think, to really take up your own shame, with vulnerability and courage, which is essentially what happens when we share — because it's vulnerability, but it's really courage underneath that, I think. And to present that shame, to share it with another, starting with yourself. Even just saying it out loud, when feeling shame in the moment, but to be able to express that shame with someone else, while modeling, perhaps, your own self-compassion, can be really powerful. Create distance between yourself and the experience of shame. Because it is not you; you are not it. It is a relationship you're having with something.

Matthew Amador: It's one of those things where it's tethered to you, you know? So it feels like it's us, but it's not. But it is. It's like a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not a square. Like, we feel it is not us, but we're a part of it. It's a conundrum to untangle. How long have we been carrying shame? And how long have we been carrying shame in our lives? How long has that knot been all tied up inside ourselves? I would hope that everyone would understand that there should be compassion for knots that we've been carrying around for decades.

Karen Yates: A quick hack that I sometimes employ is, I think to myself — which I heard years ago — is, 'Someone somewhere has experienced the same thing I'm experiencing right now.' And that gives me comfort. Because I'm actually telling myself I'm not alone in this. This is not so crazy and unusual, what I'm experiencing. Somebody has experienced it, this feeling state.

Brandon Hunter-Haydon: It's like me with grunge music in the 90s. Somebody else is this sad! But also, like, a little aggro about it. Yeah.

Karen Yates: And on that note, thank you again, Brandon Hunter-Haydon, Matthew Amador, and Elmo Painter.

[to podcast listener] For more info on Matthew, Elmo and Brandon, go to our show notes. Wild & Sublime is also sponsored in part by our Sublime Supporter, Chicago-based Full Color Life Therapy, therapy for all of you, at fullcolorlifetherapy.com. If you would like to be a Sublime Supporter, showcasing you and your business and supporting us at the same time, contact us at . If you've been feeling stuck recently and want to try a new approach, working with me in the biofield tuning method may be for you. Biofield tuning uses frequency to help repattern your bioelectric field, and can support you in new ways of approaching issues, and generally help you feel better. You can work with me in person in Chicago, or remotely from any area of the world, or attend my regular group biofield tuning sessions on Zoom on a variety of topics. For more information, go to karen-yates.com. That link is in the show notes.

Well, that's it, folks. Have a very pleasurable week. Next week: group sex. Our panel discusses in a no-holds-barred conversation. Thank you for listening. If you know someone who might be interested in this episode, send it to them. Do you like what you heard? Then give us a nice review on your podcast app. You can follow us on social media @wildandsublime and sign up for newsletters at wildandsublime.com. I'd like to thank associate producer Julia Williams and design guru Jean-Francois Gervais. Theme Music by David Ben-Porat. This episode was edited by The Creative Imposter studios. Our media sponsor is Rebellious Magazine, feminist media, at rebelliousmagazine.com.