#S3E19 | Pleasure Tips, Impact Demo, and More: June Live Show

Wild & Sublime Podcast Transcript

#S3E19 | Pleasure Tips, Impact Demo, and More: June Live Show

The Enigma: I like rattan canes. I think they respond well. It feels good in my hand. I like the connectivity — like, I feel the energy come back to me when I hit somebody with it. But those things that you turn to spin your blinds up and down? Those make really good canes if you're on vacation.

Karen Yates: Welcome to Wild & Sublime, a sexy spin on infotainment®, no matter your preferences, orientation, or relationship style, based on the popular live Chicago show. I chat about sex and relationships with citizens from the world of sex positivity. You'll hear meaningful conversations, dialogues that go deeper, and information that can help you become more free in your sexual expression. I'm sex educator and intimacy coach Karen Yates.  This week, hear our June 10 live show in Chicago, featuring how to amp the pleasure in your sexy encounters, an interview with the owner of Early to Bed sex shop, a stinging impact demo, and more. Keep listening. Hey folks. This is our last episode of the summer. We will be taking one episode off and returning September 22, the official start of fall. So I thought we'd end the season with the recording of our big, juicy, sold-out June 10 show at the Hungry Brain in Chicago, where conversations took many twists and turns. Today you'll be learning a military fun fact: which bone to check on before you start an impact scene, and what to do if you're a unicorn hunter. In Act One, you'll hear an interview with Sarah Deysach, the owner of Chicago's independently-owned sex shop Early to Bed. Then,our panel of experts discusses pleasure: how to get more of it in relationships. Plus, audiences tell us about their top sexual fantasies enacted. In act two, storyteller Alen Colorado tells a sexy tale of a truck, a gal, and Rice Krispie treats. Then we have a live impact demo — yes, you will be hearing the crack of a whip, as kink educator The Enigma shares his tricks, while his sub Clara provides blow-by-blow analysis. I could not resist that one. All of this followed by a Q&A with our panel and my Sermon on the Pubic Mound. Enjoy. I am Karen Yates, sex educator and intimacy coach. I am so excited to be here with you tonight, talking about sex and sensation. [cheers] Thank you. And, Happy Pride! Just want to say, I know there were thousands of events tonight that you could have gone to, but you chose Wild & Sublime, and I'm profoundly grateful to you for that. Kudos to you. [applause] Yes, yes.  We have an amazing show tonight. Do you like my dress? It's a little off brand, but it's so... and pearls! Pearls. I'm demure. I'm very demure. But I have to say I'm feeling a little stern tonight; there's something about the dress brings out some sternness — which is good, because we're going to have an impact demo later, in the many things we're doing tonight. We always like to have the audience participate in our prompt, and the prompt is — show it to me, Kat. [Reads] "Describe a time when you lived out a sexual fantasy, and what happened." Now you don't have to go into intense detail. You have a very small piece of paper. BUT, I want to hear the details, okay? As many details as you can pack into your little piece of paper, please do, because we will then read them and act two. But now, our guests on stage so kindly have already answered the prompt. And the first person wrote: "I once did an impromptu gangbang with six guys. It was just okay, but I felt like a total boss afterwards." There you go. There you go. All right. Next one: "I had a service call at a psychiatrist's office. One week later, she called to have me come back for 'more service.' Drinks lead to sex on the therapy couch." Yes, indeed. "The first time I went to a dungeon. Surrounded by screams, I remember pausing, doing a slow 360, and thinking, 'This feels right.'" "Sex with a famous person, someone I had a crush on. Was left disappointed. The fantasy was better."  And on that note, we will come back to more. I want to thank and acknowledge our main show sponsor for the evening, Best Therapies. Are you looking for a safe space to be yourself? Best Therapies is a therapy practice of emotion experts, gender guides, and sex-positive relationship nerds here to help. Talk to them after the show. Another sponsor, our media sponsor, Rebellious Magazine, feminist media. Check them out. And Full Color Life Therapy is our Sublime Supporter. Thank you so much. Right here, we have our Patreon table. VIP-level Patreon members get preferred seating at every show. So let's give all of our supporters a hand. Thank you so much.  All right. It is time for the interview. I have hundreds of dollars of sex toys. How about you? Where did I get them? Well, I got them at the premiere feminist sex toy shop Early to Bed in Andersonville. And tonight — I'm so excited. Searah Deysach, the owner, has been on the show before, and has been demoing a lot of product. But tonight, I was super stoked — I wanted to have her on just to talk about the business of running a feminist sex toy store. So help me welcome Searah Deysach. Here we are.

Searah Deysach: Hi.

Karen Yates: So, I saw online that you started the store Early to Bed right after you got out of school at the Art Institute.

Searah Deysach: Sort of in the middle. Yeah. I quit grad school to do it. So, don't tell people to do that. But yes, yeah — I was, you know, I mean, my main art I was making was like, just crying in my studio. So I thought there was maybe something else out there for me. And, you know, I really liked talking about sex. And I really liked sex toys. And I had these really bad experiences in Chicago. Well, it wasn't that bad, but unfulfilling, at other sex toy stores. And so, I was young and naive, and I was like, well, I'll just do it!  I mean, everyone tells me I shouldn't, and I don't have any money, but you know, why not?

Karen Yates: Really?  It's so great!

Searah Deysach: Yes, this was pre-mortgage, pre-child, all those...

Karen Yates: That's so great. So here's what I want to know. You call yourself a feminist sex store. How does that differ from a misogynistic sex store?

Searah Deysach: You know, I've yet to see anybody market themselves as a misogynistic sex toy store. I mean, I think I wanted to really establish the fact that, you know, again, you know, 20 years ago, our language was very different. It was very important to me that people knew this was woman-owned and women-oriented. Now, I like to think of us as being very gender-friendly across the spectrum. But women in particular have been left out of the conversation about their own sexuality. And this industry, the sex toy industry, is like — especially 20, 25 years ago and before — super not into empowering women, right? Even though you're making these toys for women, you're packaging them for the male gaze — G-A-Z-E — you're... You know, I learned that in art school, just the one thing I took away from it, the male gaze. And so, I use the term feminist, one, because I feel like I try to just run my business with my feminist values, with equity and treating my staff well, and blah, blah, blah, and gender parity for everybody. But I also wanted people to know that it was a safe place for women, that it was a safe place to come in, and you wouldn't be met with a wall of pussies — which are lovely, and I love them, but I think it's really off-putting for a lot of women in particular to walk into a sex toy store and have it be like, PORN! And masturbation sleeves with creepy pubic hair on them, and you know, all those kinds of things. So...

Karen Yates: So during the pandemic, what happened?

Searah Deysach: I mean, we did really well. [laughter and applause] I mean, we had a website already, so we didn't — like a lot of smaller independent sex toy stores really struggled, because they were not set up for e-comm. And we had a website for a long time. So we were really able to pivot really quickly. We sent everybody home, but my manager and I just worked — like we had two shifts, so we weren't in the store at the same time. I have never worked so hard in my whole life. I'm still waiting for my, like, pandemic bread-baking phase, because I just had to work nonstop. And people were strapping it on, going in the back door. Like, that was the theme of...

Karen Yates: Anal and pegging was the vibe?

Searah Deysach: More like butt toys and strap-ons. I don't know who was putting on the strap-ons, and what department, but yeah. It was like dildo heaven. Yeah.

Karen Yates: Wow, I did not expect that pegging, strap-on. I mean, that's the great untold story of the pandemic.

Searah Deysach: Well, exactly. I think it was like, Okay, we've done everything else. Now, you know, we've been home for three weeks now. What's next? Give me a new hole! You know?

Karen Yates: I mean, I like to say that anal is like building an addition on your house. You know, it's just, if you've got time, explore.

Searah Deysach: Yeah. And if you don't want that addition, that's fine, but...

Karen Yates: But why wouldn't you?

Searah Deysach: Well, there's lots of reasons. But anyways, yes. So, that was my pandemic story.

Karen Yates: Wow. I didn't expect that. That's awesome.

Searah Deysach: And we're very unique. You know, our industry was unique in that — you know, I'm not alone in that sex toys did really well. So yeah, I have a little bit of survivor's guilt for that. But it wasn't my fault!

Karen Yates: Can I ask — you did so well that it then spurred on the move?

Searah Deysach: Yes.

Karen Yates: Early to Bed has moved!

Searah Deysach: Yes. Well, we were able to take that dirty dildo money and we bought a building. Which, you know what? [audience cheers]

Karen Yates: Yeah. Take that dirty dildo money!

Searah Deysach: I will tell you, it was very — if you sell dildoe for a living, nobody wants to give you money. Nobody. It doesn't matter how much money you have. It doesn't matter that you and your legally wedded spouse are actually the people buying the building.

Karen Yates: It's the same for if you want a grant for doing a show like this.

Searah Deysach: Yeah, forget it. So we finally found a bank that was like, 'Oh, yeah, we gave money to a dog water therapy place. We'll give money to anyone.' [laughter and applause] I was like, okay! I'll take it. So...

Karen Yates: I love how, like, something that is something useful to humanity, like sex toys, is kind of equaled with a—

Searah Deysach: Dog water — which I'm sure it's very useful for the people who have dogs.

Karen Yates: I'm not dissing on it.

Searah Deysach: Not dissing that. Just, that was how weird they thought we were. Anyway, so yeah, so it was very exciting. We got to move a block and a half north. Beautiful gold ceilings, much more open space.

Karen Yates: You can check it all out on Instagram. It's pretty great.

Searah Deysach: And I don't have to give money to some jackass landlord ever again.

Karen Yates: Yes! You own it, you own it!

Searah Deysach: So please, keep buying dildos, though, so we can afford to keep owning it.

Karen Yates: So talk to me about FTM Essentials. This is your other business.

Searah Deysach: Yes. So it's just a different website. And we are in the very, very, very long process of transitioning the name to Trans Essentials, as we realize that FTM is a term that is, you know, starting to sound antiquated already, and we have a wider audience. But in 2012, I was realizing we were selling gender expression gear. I realized we were selling it to underage folks. And we were getting angry phone calls from parents, which is many layers of, you know, awkwardness and upsetness. But I started this site because I wanted a website that sold products for gender expression gear that were not sex products; they were, you know, things to embody your gender, but didn't also sell butt plugs, so that somebody who was underage could access that site so that it wasn't, like, flagged. But I started so it was just basically an all ages site. And so that's like a little arm of what we do. All the stuff that we have on FTM Essentials we have in the store, so people who are adults can come in and look at it.

Karen Yates: Are you still working with the military?

Searah Deysach: Okay, don't put it that way! We do a lot of work with VA hospitals, which was something I did not ever have in my plan. I got called a couple years ago from someone who was working on, like, what are these things? How do we talk about them? How many do people need?

Karen Yates: And to be clear, in case anyone is confused, this is for trans veterans.

Searah Deysach: Yeah. And I was like, well, maybe people need one. She was like, so four a year?

Karen Yates: Now wait, what are you—

Searah Deysach: Like stand to pee devices, like a device that someone would use to stand up and pee that's made of silicone, or binders to flatten your chest. Gaffes to tuck in your bits if you have, you know, outie bits. Packers to give you a bulge. And what I love about it is that they set these really high bars of like, 'Oh, you need seven at a time?' And I was like, no person buys seven at a time. Like okay, great. So now I get these really—

Karen Yates: This is why the military budget is out of control. Packers!

Searah Deysach: Exactly. They have no idea how much anything costs. They're like, so it's $90 for a pair of underwear? And I'm like, "...Yeah." Just kidding. I'm not. I'm very honest. But yeah, because they're used to buying like, legs and stuff, right? So I think a pair of underwear, they don't even know how to deal with it. Prosthetics departments. Yeah.

Karen Yates: See, you came to the show and you found out some very interesting shit. So, my last question is, what's next for the sex toy industry? Where's everything going, do you think?

Searah Deysach: Oh, my God. TikTok. Whatever someone on Tik Tok wants. We are seeing, of course, we're continuing to see innovation in technology. You know, now everything is like app-controlled, which I think has its possibilities, but I'm also like, put your fucking phone away for once! But if you're apart from your lover or whatever — so that, I think we're gonna see more, more like lower-end things being app-controlled, which is kind of fun. Penis toys. Those are kind of having their heyday. Things that don't look — like, so the traditional thing for someone to put their dick into, sex toy wise, is usually like, shaped like a body part or something like that. You know, your porn stars. But now people are like, wait, we could make things that actually feel good, and we don't have to worry about the shape of the external part of it. So they're making toys that have suction right on the frenulum, on the underside. They have lots of things for like, the head of the penis, but lots of things that look like space age, mini cities that you put your penis into—

Karen Yates: You could put your penis in a mini city! That's tremendous.

Searah Deysach: So I think we're gonna see that. And then I think we're just gonna keep seeing better design. But I don't know — like, I'm a retailer. If I were an innovator, I'd be like, oh, yeah, I was totally taking it to this level.

Karen Yates: You ever gonna sell sex dolls?

Searah Deysach: No! No, no. I mean, robots — of course, robots are what everyone's going for. But there's a lot of people who don't want a robot. There's a huge difference between dildo or a dick toy and a, like, 120-pound five foot dead person. But yes, I think yeah, innovation, technology, and sparkles. Definitely sparkles. Yeah, for sure.

Karen Yates: On that note, thank you, Searah Deysach. Woo! Awesome. Yes. Okay. So, before we bring the panel on, another fantasy lived out: [reads] "The classic threesome in college. It was lackluster, and never spoken of again. But I'm glad I did it." "I did a two-day roleplay that involved in escalation of inappropriate behavior. We stayed in character until my car broke down in the middle of the scene on day two." Damn, that is ambitious. Okay, it's time for our panel. On my right, you have Lily Gonzalez, a sex psychotherapist of Moving Mosaic practice. On my left we have Tom Doctor, sex and relationship therapist; and, last but certainly not least, audience favorite — you've been on so many shows, it's amazing — sex Coach Tazima Parris. Give them all a hand. Yes.  So tonight, we're going to be talking about how to have pleasure in any sexy encounter. And so the first thing I want to talk about is that we tend — I've noticed this; perhaps you have also noticed it — that we tend to give the power of pleasure to someone else instead of ourself when we are in some sort of encounter. Can we talk about this a little bit?

Lily Gonzalez: Yeah. I think especially as a Latina, it was always something that we were taught, right? Like, you give pleasure to your partner. It's about them. It's about making sure that they're cared for. And so that's a lot of the work that I do, it's reminding my clients to own their own pleasure and teaching them how to do that without the shame that they've learned to have along the way. A lot of the work is around the shame, the guilt and the discomfort around like, how do I even get back into my body? Because I'm so worried about my partner. And it's like, get out of your head! Get back in here.

Tazima Parris: I'll jump in with this idea that pleasure, because it's so personal, if you haven't gotten personal with, what do I like? If you haven't asked yourself, What do I like? What am I into? if you haven't had time, spent time with that question, and if you decide, Hey, I like this particular thing, then there's a whole thing of then revealing that to someone, which can be super vulnerable. So, one, get in touch with what you're into. Two, if you need support to get the confidence to start talking about that, then do that. Because you never know. If you ask for the thing you like, and then you get it, there is nothing more satisfying than getting a pleasure that you really enjoy, fulfilled with someone else, with consent and yum and excitement.

Tom Doctor: I'm thinking about the ways that pleasure narratives are often very gendered. And and there's sort of these narratives out there that there should be a giver of pleasure and someone else that's centered during sex. And I think selfishness gets a really bad rap. I often work with clients around, we're not going for selfishness, but how can we bring ourselves back in? How do we return to self focus? So how do you center yourself in a sexual act, whether you're alone or whether you're with someone else? And that means often letting go of performance, being able to know what you want, and then seek it. There's a lot to be said about doing the work ahead of time, so that then, when you're in sexual encounters, you can really center yourself and your own pleasure.

Karen Yates: Yeah, I've noticed when I work with couples that the hardest thing is this idea of taking. And even if it's 100% consensual, like, everyone has had a conversation, it's just this dynamic of taking pleasure for oneself is incredibly hard. Because we're just culturally — and this goes beyond gender — culturally, this idea of taking has a lot of shadow around it. So I want to move the conversation to even pre-bedroom, pre-relationship. Let's talk about flirting, about the pleasurable act of flirting. How do we find the pleasure in flirtation? And what I mean by that is, it tends to be kind of anxiety-producing sometimes. How do people get out of their head? How do they just stay in relationship?

Tom Doctor: In the flirting process, there is often a lot of fantasy that's going on, because there's a lot of unknown, and our brain tends to fill that unknown with all the hot things we are projecting onto the other person. That can be super awesome and hot. And it can lead to a lot of anxiety, and a lot of worry, and a lot of panic. Whether it's, oh, this could be my future husband, or, this person is going to be really great, or really bad, or really whatever in this encounter. And I think if we can first reflect as we're in this flirting process, like, what are the things that I'm projecting into these voids of knowledge? And does that make it hotter? Or does that make it anxiety-provoking? Because sometimes—

Karen Yates: Voids of knowledge. You heard that here, folks, please take that one home.

Tom Doctor: Sometimes it's fucking hot. And sometimes it's really nerve-wracking.

Tazima Parris: I love flirting. It's the best ever. And I subscribe personally to broad-brush flirting. I mean, not centering your flirting on a particular being, but like, flirt with the entire world. Like, I love learning with trees, and plants, and animals, and babies, and adults. It's like, everything. And what I'm bringing when I'm flirting is, I am sharing my joy in life. And that sort of takes it down from the anxiety-producing — which is real. The anxiety is real, because you don't know. There's so much unknown. And if I just broad-brushstroke flirt with everyone and everything, one, I get to have more pleasure; two, I get to spread that pleasure around. So it's like glitter — it's the gift that keeps on giving. When you flirt in this broad-stroke way, you can access more joy and pleasure just in general. So that's how I—

Karen Yates: So Lily, let's move the conversation on to hookups. I'm just kind of moving, progressing down the line of types of relationship. So, hookups can be very anxiety producing. What would be your number one piece of advice to getting more pleasure in a hookup.

Lily Gonzalez: I honestly think that part of it is just having fun, right? Like being silly. And when you're laughing, you have a hard time being in your head, because you're really in your body: you're enjoying, you're having pleasure. Starting there, right? If you're too serious, you're not going to have a good time. You're going to be wondering, like, you're just going to be in your head. So, one, start with the fun part, right?

Karen Yates: You have nothing to lose.

Lily Gonzalez: And the thing is, look, if I'm trying to hook up with someone, and they're boring  as hell, I'm now going there. Right? If I can't laugh, and I can't have a good time, all right, never mind, I'll just go home, and stop at Early to Bed on my way home and call it a day. Right?

Tazima Parris: I'm gonna jump in with, knowing what you want ahead of time is super, super helpful. In any sexual act, knowing what you want ahead of time — you may not actually get it, but knowing and deciding, like, hey, this would meet my needs. Like if I got this, this and this, that would be really cool. I am not interested at all in this or this. Like, forget that. And so establishing your yes, no, maybe list is a really fantastic place to start. And it can set the stage for fantastic fun, especially if part of the fun of the hookup is talking about what you're gonna do, or like, texting them, like, I want to do this, this and this, and I think that would be cool. So building that anticipation  — and by the way, you can hook up with someone who you totally know already. You might even call them a spouse sometimes. You can literally hook up with your spouse. It's not a problem. It's literally just an attitude, or a scene—

Karen Yates: Like, just text, "Hey."

Tazima Parris: WYD, question mark, winky face!

Karen Yates: I love it. Tom. What do you have to say about hookups?

Tom Doctor: Yeah, I love everything that's already been shared. I think recognizing that the stakes don't have to be so super high. And for folks that really struggle with anxiety around sex, being able to just have it be like, This is what we're doing. And that gets to be it. It doesn't have to be the first step towards something else. It gets to be sort of a single-serving snack sometimes. And that's great.

Karen Yates: Yes, single-serving snack. I like that. I like that. Yeah, because it's the futurizing that really leads to the anxiety, right? So I'm gonna pull back for a second in the middle of this relational talk. And let's talk about self pleasuring. Let's talk about — because I'm thinking like you went back home after the hookup and now you're doing it with yourself. So, what some great tips you can give people who might be in some sort of masturbation rut?

Lily Gonzalez: I actually talk about this with my clients quite a bit, especially with couples and needing some time alone. Explore a little differently, right? Have a date by yourself. Consider what you would do for another date. Do that for yourself. Take a hot bath, if that's your thing. Go for a run, if that's your thing, and then just do it a little bit differently. Instead of going for, I want to masturbate to orgasm, masturbate to get to know your body. Get to map it and understand what feels good, and what might be a deterrent for the next time around. And you might discover you have an erogenous zone you had no idea that you had. So, explore. Have fun with it, again. Apparently I'm the ‘have fun with it’ girl. So yeah.

Karen Yates: Yeah, I mean, it takes time. You have to actually devote some time to spending time with yourself. Exploration. That's, I think, one of the critical aspects of different types of self pleasure. Yeah.

Tazima Parris: I call that time with yourself, I call it a masturdate. There is a narrative about what sex in general is supposed to be. You're supposed to do this thing where you kind of go up in sensation, and it keeps going up, and then you have a climax, and then you're asleep, or you need a sandwich, or... And that's no matter what kind of sex you're having, whether it's with someone else or yourself or group of humans. And in that narrative, there's only like one path. Whereas true access to an orgasmic state is a more expansive space that you can enter, and you can explore and find out more about yourself, rather than it being this scripted, like, oh, well, I'm gonna do this thing, and like, that's totally gonna get me off. What if you just went for what feels most sensational? And so, anything can inspire you, and like, ride that inspiration into more and more pleasure. And you don't have to stop at the first orgasm, by the way. Ya don't. You don't have to wait till it's dark outside. Stop with the rules! Like, just do the thing. Have as much fun as possible, and explore where you haven't been before. And that will break you out of a rut.

Tom Doctor: Yeah, I love what's being shared. I think what I would add is recognizing what your routine is. And that masturbation doesn't have to just be like, business as usual. It isn't like, two minutes, bang it out. Alright, cool. Now we're good, I now have my head clear and I can go to the next thing. Sometimes it's that, and that's fucking great. And also, sometimes you can maybe spend a little more time, take yourself on a masturdate. Or it might be shifting up the experience. So in the same way that we talk about novelty in partnered sex can be really hot, I think novelty in solo sex can also be really hot. So it might be that, okay, I can come in four minutes if I have this Hitachi, and that is exactly what it's going to take. And maybe that doesn't mean that you have won and beat the game. Maybe there are other levels that you can also play.

Karen Yates: Are there any easter eggs involved?

Tom Doctor: Oh, I mean, there can be. We'd need to talk to Early to Bed about that. But I mean, maybe it means that you can come in two minutes. Or maybe it means that you spend an hour self-suspending, and then you're upside down hanging from a hip harness with that same Hitachi. And that's a wildly different experience than your two-minute bang it out and be done.

Karen Yates: You came here for tips. You've got the tips. Okay. Let's talk about long-term relationships. Because I know a lot of people, they start feeling like wow, the thrill is gone. There's no surprises left, which of course is bullshit. I mean, we can say this intellectually, but it can be very tough. So how does one bring more pleasure into a long-term relationship?

Lily Gonzalez: Stop sharing everything. Stop, right? Once you're in a long-term relationship, it's almost like you need to know A, B, and C, everything about me, and there's no mystery anymore. Or it's like, Ah, I like to have some mystery around each other, right? So don't share everything and don't spend every minute together. I think there are a lot of people that are like, I want to work with you, I want to live with you. Let's work out together, let’s everything, go out with friends. Have some time alone. Masturbate alone. Masturdate alone. Too much time is not good for anyone. It's a deterrent to like, suddenly you have your best friend roommate hanging out. And that's what it turns into, if that's what you're doing.

Tom Doctor: I love that, this sort of dichotomy between like, on one side there is comfort and security and affection. And on the other side, there's like, passion and eroticism, and, 'This is so hot, and I want to spontaneously rip your clothes off and do all the things,' and those don't often come together. I think, in order to add to what Lily was sharing, I would say, yes, don't share everything, but share the things that you're not sharing. So I don't know how many times I have talked with a couple and they have no idea what their partner's porn search terms are. They have no clue. What is the thing that gets them the hottest? Often, there's shame living there. Often there's all sorts of worry. And being able to, one, bridge the gap, because that can often lead to intimacy and connection. And turns out sometimes that's fucking hot. Yeah, so talk about your porn search terms.

Tazima Parris: I like what you're sharing, because vulnerability is hot. And like, revealing that thing that actually is true about you, that the person may not know can be sensational, high sensation. And just because, on the receiving end of such information, you might assume that just because a person shares a fantasy with you, or shares something vulnerable, that they want to do that thing, that's not necessarily true. Sometimes some of the hottest things can literally be saying the words that reveal the truth about oneself, period. So one, in a long-term, committed relationship, you have this tremendous opportunity to discover more and more and more about someone in an organic way that we take for granted, because the person is right there all the time. If you have experiences outside of the home or outside of your relationship together, guess what? You're going to have more to talk about, and that person becomes interesting. Also, be in situations where you can see that long term partner doing something that they're not normally doing, so that that creates novelty. Like, it literally can be like, y'all go ax throwing together, and like, you're checking them out while they're talking to the person at the thing, or whatever. You can have a whole fantasy about them talking to the service person at the ax-throwing place. But seeing them outside of the normal context can actually create a whole new perspective on the person that makes them more interesting and novel. And we take that for granted when someone is waking up next to us most nights, or all the nights, and it doesn't have to be that way. We can see them as a new being.

Karen Yates: Awesome. Thank you. Tazima Parris, Tom, Doctor and Lily Gonzalez.  I'll return to the show in a moment. Are you looking to improve erotic communication with your partner? I help couples increase pleasure, learn how to express desires, and become more connected to their own bodies and each other. All of this through dynamic, somatic-focused sessions. Go to the show notes, or karen-yates.com to schedule your free consultation.  And now, back to act two of our live, June 10 show. You'll be hearing more audience prompts, a performance from Chicago storyteller Alan Colorado, and an impactful conversation and demo with kinksters The Enigma and Clara — which a few listeners may find too explicit, if kink is not your thing, so heads up there. For the rest of you, enjoy.  [to live audience] All right. I want to read some prompts, because all of you lovely folks have been so, so generous. So here is a sexual fantasy that got played out. "The first time I got pegged. I went ham sucking on it first, then got my brains fucked in. It was like a middle finger to the whole world." Right? "I got to be a slave for two weeks, where my condition was to be chained by the ankle long enough to reach the bathroom. It got old, but I enjoyed myself." I really love people. I really do. "I was at an S&M club with a person I had just met and was falling for, in serious like. Our play together just helped a relationship develop. We are now married and it's been 25 years."  "I didn't know this fulfilled my fantasies until it was over. But it involved watching my first porn, then having my first anal sex, and then ended with my first three-way with double penetration." Whoa. All right! We have more to come. We'll start there. So, here we go. I am so excited to have this storyteller on. This next storyteller has been on the show several times, and I just adore him mightily. Please help welcome storyteller, actor, and man about town Alan Colorado. [cheers]

Alan Colorado: So I am horny, like, all the time. I'm horny right now. I was horny all through school. I was horny when I went to church. Morning, noon, night. Horny. And so, it stands to reason that at work, I'm also horny. So, a few years ago, I'm working for this data and marketing company. And I have to go do this trade show. I'm in charge of our whole presence at this trade show in Minneapolis. And it's setting up the booth and distributing like, untold amounts of samples to just everyone at this trade show. It's a point of purchase marketing expo or something. Is anyone here in marketing? Great.  Well, these marketing people, they're not on my level. Okay, this is not — I wish it was — this is not a story about me getting laid at the trade show. I was doing what I could with the booth babes that I saw. And it was not happening. And it was killing me. And striking out on Tinder, and everyone on Grindr's a bottom, and I was just dying. So I'm driving back to Chicago, I'm driving back to Chicago, and I don't know if I'm gonna make it. I am, I'm gonna die. And then it hits me. Because I had this friend Kay. And she lives in Madison, which is on the way to Chicago from Minneapolis. So I text her, and I'm like, Hey, I'm coming through Madison. Big surprise. Cool, huh? I'm gonna drive through, let's play! And she's like, that sounds like a great time. But it's Thursday, and I'm at work. And I was like, no problem. I'll come by on your lunch break, and I'll pick you up. And we'll do something, and then I'll drop you off again. And she's like, great, that works.  So, Kay *is* on my level. She is, like, the first masochist I ever played with who frightened me. Like, weird stuff. And I'm like, and I know no one here knows me, but like, that's pretty weird. So I'm like, Yeah, sure. That's great. I'll come by, I'll be the guy in the truck. Now, this is the part that I haven't told you guys, on purpose, to make my story cooler — is that I'm driving, at this point, the biggest truck that you can possibly rent without a commercial driver's license. It's 30 feet long. So I just want to illustrate something to all of you — just exactly how long this truck is. So, this is good. This is good... Okay, so stop right there. That's 25 feet. John, you're right next to her, right? Put your arms out, and then show them — so that's how long the actual truck is. And it's 13 feet high, which is almost half of this. Okay, but 30 feet, that's really long. That's 58 lengths of my penis, end to end. All right, don't do the math now. Okay. I've already done it for you.  So, it's this huge thing. And I'm like getting off on like, being this trucker. I'm kind of dressed like a trucker the whole time. And I'm like, Yeah, I'll be the guy in the truck. So I roll up to this office building in this giant thing, and she comes out and she's like, What the fuck is this? And I'm like, Get in. So I'm like, what we're going to do is this. I'm going to drive you around, we're gonna find someplace to park, we're gonna get in the back of the truck, and we're gonna do it, and then I'll just drop you off again. So sure enough, we find this, we find some some road, some street that that I can park this thing on. And we go around the back, and I've got the lift gate thing, that like, lifts us up like an elevator so that we're on the same level. It's all, beep, beep! And she's like, What is this? I open the door, it was some dramatic thing, and I closed it again. I let it be dark for just a split second. And then I turn on the dome light. And there it is: somewhere close to 50,000 Rice Krispie treats. Just the whole length of the back of this thing. On all these pallets, just shrink-wrapped perfectly to get back to Chicago.  So, I take off her pants, I put her up against one of these pallets, and I shrink-wrap her to the pallet, with a very, like, strategically placed ribbon of no shrink wrap. And then I break off from one of these pallets, the board, like a big metal board. And I start to spank her on her butt. And this doesn't really go for very long, because at this point, I'm so proud of myself. This is a story — the arc of this story is one of redemption. My long, arduous 48-hour drought is about to end. So I throw the board away, and we have sex, and it's amazing. It's sweet, as sweet and gooey as the Rice Krispie treats themselves that we're having sex on. She snaps and crackles, I pop. It's amazing. We have a great time. And then, true to my word, I don't leave her back there and drive her to Chicago. I take her back to her work. I've got splinters in my hands, but you know, we're both blushing. We had this amazing time.  Now, what I'd like to just end on is that this is a gift I'm giving to you guys. If any of this kind of sounds interesting or awesome, I want you all to remember that it says it right there on the side of any U-Haul that you see on the road: $19.95 in town, plus mileage. And you too can live out this fantasy. It's half the price of a sleazy motel, but twice as sleazy. So if you see anyone driving a U-Haul, and they look a little too relaxed to be moving — you know what's going on. Thank you very much.

Karen Yates: Thank you, Alan Colorado! Let's give him another hand. And now, I want to just read a couple more prompts here. Oh, so many. "My fantasy was having people watch me have a sexual experience. It was fulfilled when my lover strung me up in a squeezy cage, suspended, and sexily tantalized and spanked me at a kink dungeon sex club." Yes. "Paris, outside, night. The banks of the river Seine. When the tourist boats went past, we were thrown into major spotlight." Next sexual fantasy enacted. "The first time I got to watch my partner fuck someone else in front of me. It was so hot and so humiliating, and I still can't get enough." Yes. All right.  Well, now we come to the demo portion of the evening. I am super stoked about this. So tonight, we're going to be doing an impact demo. And we have with us two folks who are going to be talking more and showing us more about what impact looks like, and why you should be doing it. Please help me welcome to the stage, first kink and impact enthusiast and top-leaning switch The Enigma. So, Enigma, hi.

The Enigma: Hello.

Karen Yates: Talk to me about how you got into impact play, how you got into kink.

The Enigma: Well, I got into kink when I was probably about 10 or 11 years old. All my fantasies have always been kinky, ever since I was a kid. Impact play, I served as a bottom. I came into the scene as a bottom. And honestly, I was quickly bored. Started hanging out a club called LRA, and—

Karen Yates: A local dungeon.

The Enigma: Yeah, watching impact scenes, and I noticed I was extremely turned on watching people be beat. I get extremely turned on as a sadist, because I compare like, when somebody gets hit with something, an implement, whether it's my foot, a whip, a cane or whatever, I see a tension of the body, and then a release, which is similar to an orgasm. And I like to play with that. I'm also a control freak. So I like to control people's comfort as well as their discomfort. And that also turns me on.

Karen Yates: So why impact? Why would someone be interested in impact? What are the couple of reasons?

The Enigma: There's a lot of different ways you can play. You could play with role-playing, where some people will play where it's like a scene where somebody has been naughty and you're punishing them, like there's domestic discipline, stuff like that. And then for some people, there's some masochists who literally gets sexual gratification off of being hurt. And the sadist gets sexual gratification or for hurting people. Some people enjoy impact because they don't necessarily enjoy the pain, but they enjoy the suffering. So if they're playing with somebody and they want to suffer for them and they want to get through it, similar to somebody running a marathon, or doing anything else. They're just trying to get through it. [audience laughter] Honestly, that's what it is.

Karen Yates: So, talk to me about some of the implements.

The Enigma: You have floggers, paddles. With rough body play, you just can use your body, you can use your elbows, your fist, your feet, anything you want. Some people are into more thuddy pain, which would be like a heavier flogger or something like that. Some people like stingy play, which would be like a whip or a cane, or something like that. There's hundreds of implements.

Karen Yates: And I have to say, in case you're not into kink, this is all discussed beforehand.

The Enigma: Yes, consensually.

Karen Yates: So someone would come to you and say, Hey, I would really love to do a scene with you, but I'm looking for stingy type of pain. And then you would—

The Enigma: Yeah, we would negotiate whether they wanted a sexual or a non-sexual scene, meaning we would negotiate what that meant. Because somebody could negotiate a non sexual scene, and I might grab a nipple, and I could do a raise of hands and half the people in the room might think that sexual, and half the people might not. So if you're gonna play nonsexual, you need to describe what that means to both of you. And then, I talk to people about what they're looking for out of a scene, like what kind of pain they are looking for, and just where they're at with it all. You know, people come into it for different reasons with different expectations.

Karen Yates: Talk to me a little bit about safety.

The Enigma: Yeah, there's definitely places on the body that are safer to play than other places. You generally avoid — and I'll show you when Clara gets up here — there's a couple areas that I avoid with almost any implement. And then there's a lot of parts of the body that are — it depends on the implement you're playing with. Like, I would hit somebody in the chest with certain implements. But I might not hit somebody in the chest with a paddle, for instance.

Karen Yates: Okay, so, let's bring Clara up. You may have seen Clara last time. Clara last time was here in the role of the musician, a musician.

Clara Latimer: Yeah, I'm very excited. It's a lot easier to get hit than to remember chords.

Karen Yates: That's what I'm thinking.

The Enigma: I told Clara she would be the instrument.

Karen Yates: Ba-dum-bump! So, Clara, before you get flogged, you are now part of Twisted Tryst. That kinky summer camp.

Clara Latimer: Yes, I'm very excited. I've been attending camp since 2014. And I'm very excited to now be an official counselor. For people who don't know what Twisted Tryst is, can you explain a little bit? It is essentially a kinky camping event. So you can imagine a BDSM con that might happen at a hotel. The difference is that we don't have hotel employees. So one of my favorite things — I was just telling someone earlier tonight, one of my favorite things about Tryst. Honestly, it's nice to get chased through the woods. It's nice to get strung up from a tree. But truly, the greatest camping experience is getting up in the morning, when you have to pee, and leaving your tent completely naked. With no concern over whether or not that might be a problem for anyone else on the campsite.

Karen Yates: Wow, I have a whole different view of Twisted Tryst now.

Clara Latimer: There's yoga and food fights, and all sorts of fun, in addition to the weirder stuff as well.

Karen Yates: So when is it this year?

Clara Latimer: Oh, so we're going to be the last week of July, and we've got a new location in Ohio that we are very excited about. We're surrounded by 500 acres of beautiful nature preserves, and we're on 80 acres of campgrounds. So honestly, we have more space than will frankly allow campers.

Karen Yates: Thousands and thousands of kinksters. So let's get started, Clara.

Clara Latimer: Very excited.

The Enigma: So just general safety for everybody. I avoid joints. We're going to paddle Clara a little bit. I will do this, especially if I'm playing with somebody I haven't played with before. I don't want them to think I'm trying to finger their asshole or anything. But I do want to know where their tailbone is at. So I'll say, Clara, I'm going to check to see where your tailbone is. And then I go like that. And I check. Believe it or not, none of us are built the same. Some tailbones stick out, some tailbones bend down. And the last thing I want to do is like, smack somebody with a paddle on the tailbone. So we're going to start with a little bit of warm up. What warm up is, for people who don't play, is, if I were to just start hitting Clara really hard right away, all the blood would go to that area, the nerve endings would get super fired up, and she would probably tap out pretty quick. If I start slow and let things kind of build, she gets used to it and it's a little bit easier for her to take a little bit more, and then the endorphins start to build, and then we have some fun.

Karen Yates: Yeah. So Clara, what are you feeling right now?

Clara Latimer: So right now I'm getting a little bit of a warmup. It's a bit stingy. I am not a physical masochist, so I do not like pain, but I do like the humiliation of submitting to pain. And that last one hurt a little bit more. Yeah.

Karen Yates: So is it humiliating to have your butt in front of an audience?

Clara Latimer: You know, it's... I would say that having to communicate cogently would be a little bit humiliating. Certainly.

The Enigma: Go ahead.

Karen Yates: Do you have anything to say?

The Enigma: No, I'm just enjoying this.

Karen Yates: Got it.

The Enigma: So one thing I'll tell everybody is, with a paddle — like, this is a really heavy paddle. If I were to full swing this, I could really hurt her, and it would not be fun. Usually when I get a new toy, I'll test it on myself a little bit and see what effect I get for what amount of effort. And whatever feels a little bit shitty for me, I know I can go a little bit higher with a bottom. So a lot of people will ask about picking implements and stuff. There's a lot of different things. It's what kind of sensation you're looking for. It's also space. So what I love about canes and paddles is, if we're going on vacation, or if I'm doing something, I could like, get this through airport security in a suitcase a lot easier than I can a whole bag of floggers or something like that. Also, I like rattan canes. I think they respond well, it feels good in my hand. I like the connectivity — like, I feel the energy come back to me when I hit somebody with it. But those things that you turn to spin your blinds up and down? Those make really good canes if you're on vacation.

Karen Yates: More words of wisdom. You are learning things, folks. This is an educational event.

The Enigma: So a lot of people will tell you they hate canes. A lot of bottoms will tell you they hate canes. The reason a lot of bottoms hate canes is... Well, the number one reason is they hurt like hell. The number two reason is people will just keep hitting somebody with a cane over and over again, without giving them time to process. What happens when you hit somebody with a cane is, it pushes all the blood away from that area. And for anybody who's played before, it's like having a clothespin on for a long time. It hurts until it doesn't. And then when you remove it, it hurts again. It's the same thing with a cane; when you hit somebody with a cane, the blood goes away. And then there's usually a 20 or 30-second burn that comes after that, which is kind of orgasmatic, if you're into it. So you can either have somebody count, or like, I read people, I think, pretty well. But if you're starting to play with somebody for the first time, you can either have them count, or have them ask for the next stroke. The other thing is, when you hit somebody with a cane, if you pull it right at impact, the skin wraps around the cane and then you snap the skin, and that's where you get those really nice cane marks.

Karen Yates: Clara, do you want to direct the strikes?

Clara Latimer: Oh man, I normally don't get an option, and I'm not interested in starting now.

The Enigma: These are little warm up strokes. If I wanted to, I could just do that in the same spot, and that gets the blood going. So that hurts a lot more than it looks like. I'm gonna be nice and spread it out. [a pause, followed by a loud thwack]

Karen Yates: Do you want to share your reflections? [laughter]

Clara Latimer: All right. Well, I will say, if you rub your hand lightly on the area in which you are impacting between strikes, your bottom will likely be able to take far more.

The Enigma: Like that?

Clara Latimer: Like that. Yeah, that's super helpful. Wow. It's so romantic, too.

Karen Yates: So what are we moving to? Oh, dear. [laughs]

The Enigma: We're gonna move to a single-tail whip. This is a higher skill item. You just have to practice with it a lot. But what I like about a single-tail is that I can do anything from just touch the hair on somebody's shoulder to just, with a little bit of change of intensity and speed, really change the effect of the implement.

Karen Yates: But I do want to reiterate, you need to practice with this before you—

The Enigma: Yeah. [sound of a whip, then an especially hard crack; the audience gasps.]

Karen Yates: Yes, everyone needed to see the smile. So Clara, I noticed you working with your breath.

Clara Latimer: Yeah, yeah.

Karen Yates: Was this simply to be able to endure more?

Clara Latimer: Yeah, you know, different people process pain in different ways. I typically breathe, and I start making noise when it starts really sucking. So, we didn't really get too far into my screaming bloody murder. But if we had kept going, yeah, it really — the more that whip hits the same spot, it makes a huge difference.

Karen Yates: Do you do educational events together?

Clara Latimer: This is the first one.

Karen Yates: The beginning of something new. Well, everyone give Enigma and Clara a big hand. [vigorous applause] That was fascinating and fabulous. I'm gonna read a couple more prompts, and then we're gonna have our panel back on for Q&A. All right. [reads] "I recently fulfilled my fantasy of getting my face fucked while upside down in a rope suspension. Very fun! [smiley face]." [reads]  "I was publicly humiliated with a sign stapled to me that said, 'Community hole' [arrow down]" "Hooking up on Tinder." Yes, I would agree. Oh, and the last one: "We did an orgy for my wife's bachelorette party, and it was so fun and connected." Awesome. You can find images from the show, including the impact demo, on the Wild & Sublime live show page at wildandsublime.com. The link is in the show notes. We conclude the show with a Q&A with our panelists Tazima Parris, Lily Gonzalez, and Tom Doctor, followed by my Sermon on the Pubic Mound.  So, we talked about anal tonight. Here's an anal question. [reads] "Anal scares us. What is the possibility of having a bowel movement during anal?"

Tazima Parris: You can definitely reduce the possibility and probability. So, there are a couple of things that you can do to prepare. There's a fantastic book called "Anal Pleasure and Health," I think it's called. Any of my experts out there? So one, you can change your diet. Two, you can do an enema or anal douche. And regardless, you can work to your own comfort — you don't have to have porn-level activity in your anus in order to achieve anal. So, my encouragement is to start small, and there are definitely things that you can do to reduce the chances of you having a bowel movement during. I would say generally zero. And also, you wouldn't really be having anal sex if there was that much material in your colon.

Karen Yates: Well, you have to — if you're going to be having anal, it will involve poop. Indeed. I mean, but as Tazima said, by doing various things, you get to determine how much poop there's gonna be. [laughs]

Tom Doctor: Yeah, I recently heard something, and I wish I could credit where I heard it. But, 'If you come over to my house, you can expect to find me there. And if you go into poop's house, you might find poop there.' [laughter and applause]

Lily Gonzalez: The only thing I really have to add is, just prepare for it. Right? If you're going to do it in a bedroom, prepare your bed. Prepare whatever space is going to be—

Karen Yates: Or you can start in a shower.

Lily Gonzalez: Perfect place. Perfect.

Tazima Parris: Use Uberlube. It's really fantastic.

Tom Doctor: Also, from a functional standpoint, from an anatomical standpoint, the large intestine is separated from the anus by the rectum. And so there's one sphincter, that is the anus, the butthole. And then there's another one up. So if you have just relieved yourself, you got some space to play with. Because that's going to be empty.

Karen Yates: Right. I mean, I do want to say that, that is like, one of the number one fears of doing anal. So, you're not alone. I mean, that really is a super, super common fear. So yes, you can read up on it. Seriously, there's a lot of guidance out there. But to have a full-blown bowel movement, what you might be afraid of is, you might have been fingered or have begun going down that road, and felt like you were going to have a bowel movement. But the feeling is actually a muscle response that everyone has. It doesn't mean you're going to have to poop — you just feel like you have to poop.  [reads] "What is the safest and easiest way to find a third person to join us? Tinder hasn't worked."

Lily Gonzalez: Start close.

Karen Yates: What do you mean?

Lily Gonzalez: Well, depending on how close some of your relationships with your friends might be, they might be into it, right? Like if it's trustworthy enough people that you can consider, you know, like having rules around what's gonna happen afterwards. That's a good place to start.

Tazima Parris: I'm not a digital dater. I'm really an in the real world kind of person. And there's a lot that the universe has for you that literally is intention. Like, the more specific one can get about what kind of experience you want. So, not just like, oh, I want someone to join us, or whatever. It's like, well, what do you want? How do you want to feel? And there are also online communities other than that. So FetLife is one that you could get an account, you can get an account together as a couple, and put that out there. That's definitely – especially if you can be really specific about what you desire. Folks can inbox you on that, and that's part of what that's for. So FetLife is an option. And generally setting your intention. And you can actually attract people, but you also have to be willing to talk about it. And that's vulnerable.

Tom Doctor: So I think unicorn hunting, seeking a third person, is generally, in a lot of nonmonogamous spaces, it gets a bad rap, gets a pretty negative view, because I think a lot of the people that end upunicorn hunting tend to be very interested in like, 'I want to have this sexual experience that centers me, or that centers me and my partner.' And for some people, that's fucking super hot, and they will absolutely want to guest star for someone else's experience. And recognize that you are not just fucking a flesh suit. This is also a fully realized human being. And so, are you seeking a sexual experience? Or are you seeking a human being? And I think, often in unicorn hunting, the way that it is perceived, and the way that it comes across is, we're looking for a flesh suit in order to fulfill this fantasy that has nothing to do with you as a person, I just want to use your body for a short period of time. Which, if that's your kink, that's fucking super hot. Like, I am all about somebody that wants to be used only for their body — and recognize that that is a very different experience than — that is probably not what most people on Tinder are seeking. And so remember that this third person that you're lusting over is also a person.

Karen Yates: Awesome. Awesome. Next question, "How can a man last longer?"

Tom Doctor: It depends, as so many sex questions do. So, often, if somebody comes in and they're like, Hey, I come too soon, with clients, we will work through, first, what is your sexual relationship with yourself? Are you doing the routine masturbation that we talked about, where you're like, Okay, let me pound it out in two minutes, and then we're the fuck out of here, I need to go on with the rest of my day? What is hot to you about sex? What is the feeling that you're seeking? And then also, are you able to attend to things like other sensory experiences? Are you able to attend to other things that are going on in the room? Are you paying attention to your partner? Are you paying attention to yourself? What is the way that we can encapsulate all of the other things around it? Because often, when a man comes in and says, Oh, I come too fast, I'm like, Okay, tell me what that means. And they are considering sex, the moment from penetration until the moment of ejaculation, and that is what sex is. And so, there are a shitload of things that you can do that do not have anything to do with a dick. Turns out, a lot of lesbians have really great sex without dicks. And so, if you want the sexual experience to last longer, maybe that's a piece of it. Think about it as a sexual experience, not just a pole and a hole.

Karen Yates: You heard it here, folks.

Tazima Parris: I will add, on top of that, absolutely, like, expanding what we're calling sex is huge. It's huge. And the time that people think that is long or short, or whatever, is often based on this scripted narrative of, things are supposed to last a certain amount of time. And when we extend what sex actually is, what the definition of sex — longer can be a greater experience, or more intense. In addition to the time thing, it's also what are you seeking, as far as how you want to feel after? Also, is the person who's receiving your penis interested in having a longer amount of time for the pole in the hole? [to Tom] Thank you for that. [laughter] Because they might not actually feel the same about 'It's too short.' So, checking in with one's partner is also a good idea. Find out, is it satisfying for you? Or are there activities that could take the place of this? Or I feel insecure about XYZ — and by the way, this is a pretty high-level conversation. This is not the easiest conversation to have, because it can be very vulnerable. So I want to acknowledge that. I'm talking about it as a professional who helps people to talk about this. This is not an easy conversation to have. And, it's a necessary conversation to have, if you want to really expand your experience of pleasure and how it shows up in the sex act.

Lily Gonzalez: I can't say that I can add too much more. But really, it's important to understand, are you climaxing too fast for yourself? Is that your perspective? Are you talking to the partner? So pretty much where you were going. It's like, according to who, right? And maybe that's not what you want to be doing anyway.Like, there are other things, as we've said up here. Like, there's so much more. So yeah, I can't really add much more.

Karen Yates: Awesome. Thank you. Final question: "Could you share the story of your sexual liberation?" Moi? Well, I'm writing a book, so you're gonna find out pretty soon. [laughs; applause] So with that, I would like to thank our panel tonight. Thank you so much for your wisdom. Tazima Parris, Tom Doctor, and Lily Gonzalez. Thank you so very much. And as we all know, or as the folks who come to the show know, it is now time for the Sermon on the Pubic Mound. So, I knew the show was happening. You know, when I'm a couple of weeks out, I'm always like, Oh, what am I going to...? What's the sermon gonna be on? And I started getting a little worried, because I thought, so much is happening in the world right now. That I don't know what I have to say, about anything. And I think in the face of like, national catastrophe, or international catastrophe, it's really easy to marginalize one's own life, if you're not in the middle of a catastrophe.  Tonight, we talked about pleasure. And it might seem strange in times like this to talk about pleasure. But pleasure, both the sensuous, which is using the senses to take in feeling, and the sensual, which is more of the sexual kinds of sensation — these are the things that lead us back to ourselves and our bodies. And the more we feel in our bodies, the more centered and grounded we can be in times of strife. So, as I mentioned, I'm an intimacy coach, and I work primarily with couples. And a little while ago, something very interesting happened. I was working with a couple, and I tend to do a lot of physical games and movement kind of things. So I was working with this couple, and there was a little bit of discord in the middle of this. Something was happening between the two of them. And one partner turned away from her partner, like, turned her back and walked away, because she was a little overwhelmed. And in my studio, I have mats on the floor, and like, I've got this really great, big fur plushy blanket. And she's walking away, and suddenly she looks down. And she sees the blanket, and her eyes light up, and she starts smiling, and she gets down and she just starts feeling, very impulsively, she just starts feeling the blanket. And I thought, That's it. She reoriented to herself by taking pleasure, finding pleasure.  And that's exactly what happened. She talked about it later. She's in the middle of this thing with her partner, and then saw something else and reoriented. So we have to stick with our pleasure in order to stick with ourselves. The world is in pain now. But we don't have to be every single day that is not a requirement. And I'm not saying that we need to get off all the time. We need to be self-pleasuring all the time, or be going to orgies. That's not what I'm saying. I mean, if you want to, that's not a bad idea. But, you know, when you're feeling overwhelmed, can you just sit there with yourself, be with yourself, and even just offer yourself some nurturing touch? Or ask for nurturing touch from a partner. Or maybe just rest, without the phone. Just sit and rest. Lie down. Be with yourself, hold yourself. Sometimes the quietest moments of pleasure help us come back to ourselves, and they bring us peace. And that can't help but be a service to the world.  Thanks, everyone. Thank you so much for coming out tonight. Happy Pride! For more information on all the participants on the show, go to the show notes. If you would like a transcript of this episode, go to the episode page on wildandsublime.com. Wild & Sublime is supported in part by our sublime supporter, Full Color Life Therapy, therapy for all of you, at fullcolorlifetherapy.com.  Well, that's it folks. We will be returning September 22. Until then, I hope the rest of your summer is quite pleasurable. Thank you for listening. If you know someone who might be interested in this episode, send it to them. Do you like what you've heard? Then give us a nice review on your podcast app. You can follow us on social media at @wildandsublime and sign up for newsletters at wildandsublime.com. I'd like to thank associate producer Julia Williams and design Guru Jean-François Gervais. Theme music by David Ben-Porat. This episode was edited by The Creative Impostor studios. Our media sponsor is Rebellious Magazine, feminist media at rebelliousmagazine.com.