S4E2 | On Switching – October Live Show, Part 2

Wild & Sublime Podcast Transcript

S4E2 | On Switching – October Live Show, Part 2

Stranger: It’s often presented that if you’re dominant, you are either a man who’s big and tough and is just going to beat you up, and all these different stereotypes that go with toppy dominance. Dominance over bottom. And if you’re in the subcategory of being a female dominant, then you are a bitch and mean, and you wear latex with a really high ponytail.

Karen Yates: Welcome to Wild & Sublime, a sexy spin on infotainment®, no matter your preferences, orientation, or relationship style, based on the popular live Chicago show. I chat about sex and relationships with citizens from the world of sex positivity. You’ll hear meaningful conversations, dialogues that go deeper, and information that can help you become more free in your sexual expression. I’m sex educator and intimacy coach Karen Yates. This week, from our October live show, an interview about how to switch power positions. Plus, a storyteller relates how he became a vers, and more. Keep listening.  Do you want to connect with your partner more easily? Download my free publication, “Say It Better in Bed! 3 Proven Ways to Improve Intimate Communication.” Learn effective things to say and do, leaving the guessing game behind. Whether you’re in a long term relationship or hooking up once, you will come away with simple yet powerful ideas to boost your sexual communication skills. Go to the show notes or karen-yates.com to download your FREE guide.

Hey, folks. Our last episode pulled a lot from our fourth-anniversary live show in Chicago. But there was still more to be had, which you will hear today. And, best of all, it’s thematically linked! We didn’t even plan that. You can still get tickets for our next show, Saturday, February 11 at Constellation in Chicago, just in time for Valentine’s Day. We’ll have a great panel conversation with some of the regulars on this podcast, as well as vendors, demos, dancers, and more. Tickets can be purchased through the link in our show notes, or at wildandsublime.com. And the live show and my recording today takes place on the unceded lands of the Council of Three Fires, the Ojibwe, Odawa, and Potawatomi nations, also colonially known as Chicago. If you want to learn more about the tribal lands you are residing on, there are many resources online to help you do so.

So, for today’s episode, we’ll be focusing on switching or being a vers — versatile, as it’s also known. If you are always the one in the power position, how do you become more submissive, or vice versa? Will your head explode? And I mean that in a good way. We begin with an interview with recurring guest, kink educator Stranger, to talk about the basics of switching and how to go about it. We will then hear a delightful story from the always hilarious Archy Jamjun on the joys of being vers. And finally, my Sermon on the Pubic Mound on the past four years. Interspersed among all of these segments, you will hear audience responses to the show’s prompt. Enjoy.

[in front of live audience] All right. Yes. So the prompt for tonight that I want everyone to participate in is: “It might be weird, but ____ really turns me on.” It might be weird, but “blank” really turns me on. And what we always do in the first act is, we have the guests, who will be onstage tonight, write their prompt. So here we go. Here’s a couple. “It might be weird, but passing and chewing fruit while making out really turns me on.” “It might be weird, but toe-wiggling really turns me on.” “It might sound strange, but sustained eye contact and breathing in unison really turns me on.” Mmm, yeah. “It might be weird, but fantasizing about difficult erotic memories that would otherwise be triggering, but are still hot, turn me on.” “It might be weird, but I get turned on when a guy rubs the very short hairs in the back of my head.” “When my shirt gets lifted slowly, and my boobs fall out.” “It might be weird, but having the person I’m having sex with wanting to have sex with me, and not just because I’m available, really turns me on.” [cheers]  Right? Yeah! All right, one more. “It might be weird, but men wearing bracelets really turns me on. I love wrists.” Love the wrists.

All right, a little bit more later. Okay, okay, okay. So, our next person, I’m very excited, having back to the show. They were here April of this year, and we had such chemistry. [giggles] I have thought about them and asked them back on, because they do a lot of education in kink. So, please help me welcome top-leaning switch Stranger to talk about switching. Hi.

Stranger: Hello.

Karen Yates: Hi.

Stranger: So nice to see you.

Karen Yates: It’s so nice to see you.

Stranger: I can see the twinkle in your eye.

Karen Yates: I know. Once you get tied up by someone onstage, you know there’s no going back. So, we’re talking about switching tonight. And who is this conversation for?

Stranger: This conversation is for everyone. So, just in a nutshell, switching has a variety of meanings. Generally — we’re obviously going to get into this a little bit more — if you switch back and forth between a variety of roles — say, like dominant and submissive, or top and bottom — in your sexual activity, your kink play, your relationships, and so on, then you are a switch. But this conversation is for more than people who are kinky; it’s for more than people who are polyamorous; it’s for more than people who are switches. Everyone, I guarantee you, knows a switch. You have a switch in your life. And we’re going to be talking about some of the nuances of this identity, and how to support them, and just a peek into an experience of a switch like myself, and things to think about. And if you’re curious about switching, this might be a helpful conversation for you.

Karen Yates: Awesome. So, can you define some of the roles in switching? Because there’s top/bottom, there’s Dom/sub, and a lot of folks — there’s big letter/little letter — a lot of folks get kind of confused between the various terms.

Stranger: Yes, absolutely. So, just sort of a disclaimer, everything I’m going to be talking about is from my own experience, and my own understanding of what switching looks like and what these various roles, the definitions of them. I also have the pleasure of facilitating a lot of conversations about switching. So I’m going to be bringing in some other folks’ perspectives as well. But for me, the way I understand it, the sort of clearest way of sort of slicing these things — topping and bottoming has to do with who is delivering an activity, right? So if we’re talking about spanking, for example, who is doing the spanking? That person is the top. Who is receiving the spanking? That person is the bottom. 

Something like sex — switching and top and bottom is used a lot just in sex without kink. Who is doing the penetrating, the stimulating, and who is receiving, sort of enjoying that experience? These things can be happening at the same time. So already, a lot of these definitions can be blurred. Obviously, I’m very active in the kink community. It’s what I was here for last time, doing some rope bondage stuff. So I’m going to be talking a lot from that perspective as well. But dominance and submission, power exchange is very prominent; it’s part of BDSM. And I distinguish dominance and submission from topping and bottoming, where dominance and submission has to do with power — who is sort of driving what’s happening? Who’s giving the commands, for example? Who is saying, “Come here and give me a blow job, you top”? So you know, the person giving the blow job is the one delivering the action. 

And so, for me, someone who’s doing that activity is the top, even if they are submitting in that situation, right? This is just one example. Perhaps I have someone to say, you know, come clean my boots; I’m going to sit back and enjoy this, while somebody puts a lot of work into providing a service for me like a service submissive, for example. So hopefully, some of those examples kind of help distinguish.

Karen Yates: But there’s people that may be switching without even knowing they’re switching.

Stranger: Oh, yeah.

Karen Yates: So, can you talk a little bit about that?

Stranger: Absolutely. So, I mean, think about the 69 position. Really think about it for a second. Who’s topping in that situation? Who’s bottoming? It’s both at once, right? And so, you know, switching doesn’t even have to happen, you know, like, today, I’m a dominant. Tomorrow, I’m a submissive, and right now I’m topping, but maybe an hour later, I’ll bottom for something. You know, it can happen at the same time, in ways where you’re not thinking about kink, you’re not thinking about power, you’re not thinking about, you know, switching in sort of a really distinct “time one, I’m this; time two, I’m this.” Something like that can happen simultaneously, all at once.

Karen Yates: So why do people want to switch?

Stranger: It’s a really great question. I think it can have to do with a lot of different things. So, for me, it has to do with desire, very simply. What do I want? What am I looking for? What kinds of experiences do I want to have? What turns me on? What makes me feel empowered, or delightfully disempowered? And so that can be one thing – just plain desire, eroticism. Another could be identity. You know, how do I identify? What sorts of sexual activities are wrapped up in who I am and how I express myself? Another could be circumstantial. You know, who’s my partner? Who are my partners right now, and what do they like to do? Maybe my partners are only into tapping, and they’re like, this is what really gets me going. And so for him, I’m like, alright, well, I’ll just, you know, sit back and have a good time. And others are like, I just really want you to step on my face every day. And I’m like, okay, you know, I brought the boots for it, let’s go! And so it could be, you know, just the people that you’re with. For me, I’m involved in a community where, you know, we sort of play amongst ourselves in a very, very large group of people. 

And it could just be that there’s a shortage of tops around. And so it’s like, well, okay, I’ve got the skills, you know, I want to play with people. So I might as well get some action. I know how to tie people up, and people are looking for it, so sure. It’s a nice way to connect with people. Yeah. So there’s a variety of reasons to want to switch back and forth. It could also just be a change of desire over time. Right? So, some people who identify as switches identify, you know, “I’m a switch right now, happy to go either way.” Others might say, you know, like, “Well, when I first started out,exploring sex, I was really interested in bottoming. But now, over time, I’m starting to get an interest in topping or being more dominant.” Or, you know, vice versa, you know, like, well, I’ve done a lot of topping, but I’m really interested in what is submitting like? 

And so, it could just be some kind of shift in your interests. You could be exposed to something where you’re like, Oh, that looks nice. For me, the first time — I started out as a top, and I identify as a top-leaning switch. So generally, if you see me out, I will be doing more often than I’m receiving. And it’s because I enjoy it. That tends to be what I like to do, and what I jump to when I think, oh, I want to play with this person; can’t wait to think of all the things I want to do to them. And one time, I asked someone, you tie with rope a lot, like I tie with rope, and I really want to know what it feels like. I feel like it would make me a better top. I’m really interested. And they put rope on me, and I was like, “Ohhh. Wow, that’s nice. Cool. Maybe we could do this again sometime…” And it was all uphill from there for me. 

So, I mean, just a lot of different reasons. Perhaps just an exposure to experience. But it could be something as intimate as identity or relationships.

Karen Yates: What do you think keeps people from moving out of a role? Like, what do you think the obstacles are to becoming flexible around switching?

Stranger: Yes. I think it actually has a lot to do with what other folks have already talked about today. I’m going to be talking about boxes a lot. I think that brains generally, just — you know, in terms of our own identities about ourselves, we’re always trying to understand ourselves. And a way that we do that is to try to put ourselves in boxes. You know, it’s like, okay, well, if I like bottom-y stuff, then that must make me a bottom. And this is what bottoms should do. And this is what bottoms like, and this is how people view bottoms. And this is what I should wear if I want people to know I’m a bottom… And so, if suddenly you start getting an interest in topping, you’re like, “Okay, well, in our society, bottoming and topping are sort of opposite, contradictory, you know, they’re supposed to complement each other, but they don’t really overlap. You know, sometimes people might think, you know, well, if I’m a big tough top, and suddenly I want to bottom, are they going to think I’m too soft to ever top again? Does this align with how I express myself? I’m wearing really big shoes, so who’s gonna want to beat me up?” You know? And things like this. 

And so, putting ourselves in boxes, we can get in our own heads about it. And this was certainly the case for me, where I was like, oh, people kind of view me as this sort of intimidating — I really like to make people feel a little nervous, you know? And so, how do I, how am I supposed to act? What am I supposed to say? How am I supposed to ask somebody like, “Hey, I know that you have this picture of me in your mind, so let me just change that.” You know, and it can be really nerve wracking. What if they’re like, “Oh, you’re suddenly very unattractive to me, and I have no interest in you whatsoever”? This is sort of the worst case.

Karen Yates: Do you think people always skew one way? Or do you think some people can be neutral?

Stranger: It’s a good question. I think people are just all over the map. I think that, you know—

Karen Yates:  We see from the prompts tonight.

Stranger: Oh, man, whoever did that man with a fish profile picture… Cracked me up. Yeah, I really think that people are all over the map. I think that people can be like, I can go either way, anyway, any time, doesn’t matter. Some people, I think, are particular to relationships  — like, well, in this relationship, I think I really have only toppy feelings. And then this one over here, I have really only bottomy feelings, and I don’t really switch within these relationships. Whereas for me, I have relationships where that’s the case. And I also have relationships where all we do is switch all the time. And we sort of have to check in every time we see each other, like, “So what are we doing today? Who’s on top today?” I think it can inspire a lot of conversation and communication about desire. It really allows us to view each other with an open mind, and break out of those boxes. So, I think for some folks, I’m top-leaning all the time, all I ever do is top, except for, you know, a couple times where I bottom here and there. And for others, maybe it changes over time, where they might still identify as a switch, because it’s like, well, you know, for half the year, I’m a bottom, but you know, this this half of the year, I’m kind of a top. But who knows? Maybe it’ll go back at some point.

Karen Yates: So for folks who want to start exploring being a top, how to go about it? Like, especially if they’re feeling really nervous, what would you say to folks to make it easy on them?

Stranger: Yeah, absolutely. I would really take a moment to think about what you’ve been told a tarp should look like. This is especially true in a gendered sense, because I think that topping and bottoming and dominance and submission can be very gendered. It’s often presented to us that way, where if you’re dominant, you are either a man, who’s big and tough, and is just going to beat you up and be mean and whatever. And all these different stereotypes that go with toppy dominance, dominance over bottom, and so on. And, you know, if you’re in the sort of subcategory of being a female dominant, then you are a bitch and mean, and you wear latex with a really high ponytail. Right?

Karen Yates: Basically, yeah.

Stranger: So take a second to think about, you know, what are these ideas in my head of what a top should look like? And just try to dismantle them within yourself. And that will give you room to think about, you know, what kind of top do I want to be? What are my desires actually? And really try to embrace those within yourself. And then take baby steps. Communicate with the people that you have sex with, that you play with. Try stuff on yourself. That was one of the greatest ways that I practiced topping, when I—

Karen Yates: How do you do that? How do you top yourself?

Stranger: Oh, it’s great. So it depends on, you know, what you’re interested in doing. So again,  I have a rope background. I literally tie myself up. And you know, I just kind of change my mindset and think, you know, what is it that I like about the movement of tying this rope? You know, what am I trying to make myself feel? How do I feel on this rope? Do I want someone else to feel that way? Is it more about, you know, the action of doing it? Or is it an emotion that I’m trying to instill in somebody else? But it’s really self reflection, and allowing yourself to be who you are while you’re embracing this role.

Karen Yates: So, let’s talk about submissives. With Caitlin, we were talking about the guy on her show who had a lot of trouble building out a submissive erotic persona. So what would you say about folks that are like, “Ooh, I really want to try this, but I can’t give up control!!”

Stranger: Yes, exactly. And this was exactly my situation. And it’s something that I honestly still struggle with. It’s really, really hard to let go, especially if you are used to enjoying driving a scene, right? And if you’re like, I know pretty much how this is going to go, and I’m sort of crafting this thing. And you know, I have this element of surprise, and I know what’s gonna come next. And it can be really empowering. And so if you’re a top, switching toward the bottom, letting go of those things can be really difficult. And I think there are some, you know, similar aspects of stereotypes when it comes to bottoming, right? Bottoms tend to be, you know, in stereotypes like in porn, right? Really passive, only just kind of like, you know, meekly taking the thing. But there’s a wide spectrum of what bottoming and submission looks like. Submission can be very active, and bottoming can be very active. You’ve heard the term power bottom, right? Like, there’s a lot of different ways to look at it. 

And so, talking with the people that you’re engaging with, you know, saying, you know, here’s the fantasy that I have, here’s the feeling that I’m going for, you know, can we experiment? Because I really want to try to find that feeling, whether it’s fear or vulnerability, or just like feeling like I can take a lot of shit, right? Feeling strong, and I want to feel big. You know, often in my own submission and my own bottoming, that’s what I go for. I like to feel big and powerful when things are happening to me, and and so there’s just a lot of room outside of the box of submission that we’re often presented in media, in porn, even from, you know, other folks around us who present this idea of submission as, who can who can take the most pain, right? It doesn’t have to be about pain. You know, who is the most polite bottom? You can be a rude bottom. You know, brats are totally a thing. There’s just a lot of different variation in what you can do. And so really, I would say, the most important piece of advice for switches is to — as much as you can — talk about it. Try to release expectations, going into it with an open mind, a lot of communication, and embracing your own desires.

Karen Yates: Awesome. Thank you so much.

Stranger: Of course!

Karen Yates: Big hand for Stranger. All right. And in the spirit of our conversations — we’ve had a lot of conversations about switching tonight — there is a tote bag that has a big old ‘FLUID” on it. So check that out.  Right. More prompts. “It might be weird, but lower backs really turned me on.” “It might be weird, but being turned into a latex bimbo turns me on.” “It might be weird, but stumpy boots…” Stranger, did you write that? Okay. “It might be weird, but having a lover stay perfectly still while inside of me turns me on.” Meow. “It might be weird, but fear boners really turn me on.” I’m learning something! “It might be weird, but I fucking love men in tool belts.” Oh, yes, I agree. “It might be weird, but motorcycle helmets really turn me on.” “It might be weird but getting fist— [audience laughter] —getting fisted in my ass in the ninth round of a title match with Rocky Balboa really turns me on.” So, there’s some things. There’s some things to think about.

[to podcast listener] We’ll return to the rest of the show in a moment. Every episode of Wild & Sublime has a transcript, which is great if you are hearing impaired. You can find them at wildandsublime.com under each episode.  Do you want to create a podcast, but feel a little overwhelmed? Can I suggest Buzzsprout is the easiest and best way to launch, promote and track your podcast? Buzzsprout is a podcast host with both free and paid plans. By using them, your podcast gets listed in all major podcast directories like Apple, Spotify, Google and more. And you get a website. They are great with analytics and support, and I especially love them because their newsletter and podcast offer tons of tips for growing your pod. A friend recommended them to me, and now I am recommending them to you. And if you say that Wild & Sublime sent you by clicking on our affiliate link in the show notes, you get 20 bucks and we get 20 bucks. Cool, huh? Go to the show notes to begin.  And now, for storyteller Archy Jamjun talking about peach perfection, followed by my Sermon on the Pubic Mound.

[in front of live audience] Oh my God. We’ve got so many responses here. This is fantastic. So let me read a couple of prompts. “It might be weird, but golden showers really turn me on.” “It might be weird, but someone taking my shoes off really turns me on.” “Dark leg hair.” I love people. “Consent conversations.” Okay. Is that weird? I don’t think that’s weird. “Literacy.” Okay, you’re one of those “there/their” people, aren’t you? That’s not bad. I used to be a copy editor. “It might be weird, but having my feelings hurt turns me on.” Meow meow meow meow meow! “Foam rolling.” “It might be weird, but a Portuguese cave turns me on.” I don’t know — is that a kink thing? Oh, this is great. “It might be weird, but penises turn me on.” And then we have — the next one was, “Penis?” It’s okay. It’s okay for penises to turn you on. “When my partner not just desires me but values me.” Mmm “It might be weird, but being afraid turns me on.” Ooh, gets all the juices going… “It might be weird, but having my face stepped on, preferably in heels, turns me on.” Ah, yeah! Okay. Okay. That is good for now.  So, our next performer performed at the December 2019 show, when we went back for one one night only to Stage 773. And he was hi-lari-ous! Please help me welcome Archy Jamjun, who is a storyteller, a server and thot.

Archy Jamjun: I was “dark leg hair.” But I also love penises, too. Yeah. That is, like, duh. 

Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil, rainbow unicorn. Those are the emojis that comprise my Grindr name. I didn’t want to find myself on a dating app ever again. I was engaged for three years, and thankful I didn’t have to live that life. There are also moments, however, when I mournfully wondered, “Is that the only penis I am going to suck, fuck and touch for the rest of my life?” And, well, karma. And we broke up, and I downloaded Grindr. Grindr profiles usually include your height and weight stats and a few pictures. It also asks you to fill out your race, which is… kind of racist. I mean, if you can’t tell I’m Asian by looking at my pics, you’re hanging onto a stereotype but not looking at a picture of my face. It also asks you your position. Now, you can be a top, a vers top, a true vers, a vers bottom, a bottom, or a side. I categorize myself as a vers bottom. To me, that means I’m a catcher, who once in a while likes to throw the ball. Oh, hey. And while I love and need to be a catcher, being submissive is so on the nose when it comes to gay Asian stereotypes. I might as well only wear kimonos. When we first met, my ex would let me bat about once a month. And that feeling of versatility really excited me. But by the time we broke up, I was lucky if I got it on my birthday. So when I became single again, I decided to rediscover and redevelop the top in me. 

The thing is, I’ve so rarely done it that the thought gets me nervous — let’s say anxious. All my exes have been tops, and topping a top on Christmas — I’m a Buddhist, but I love traditions. Topping a top on Christmas is very different from trying to satisfy a well-versed bottom. Saying I’m a vers bottom in the gay world implies, I will try but we might be better off watching Drag Race. His Grindr name is “Sup.” He lives 1300 feet away from me. It’s so exact. Why don’t other apps do that? Like your GrubHub, you would know exactly where that’s at. Okay. He’s Latin with curly hair — a weakness. I tapped him and he responded quickly. Now at some point in every Grindr conversation, somebody says, “So what are you into?” So what are you into? He asked. I’m a bottom, my vers is so rare I don’t lead with it. Oh, nice. He says, I’m usually a bottom, but I could definitely pound your cute ass. Who says romance is dead? 

I had him over at about five o’clock that evening. He was a little thicker than his pics, but I like thick. He had on khaki cargo shorts… But nonetheless, I took him up to my bedroom. I’m lenient. And tried to kiss him. “I don’t really like to be kissed.” Oh.. “I mean, you can kiss my neck and body.” We proceeded, started to undress. And then I saw it. Now, I don’t want to gross you out with the details of what I consider to be a perfect bum. I’m sure you have your own ideas of what a perfect bum is. But for me, seeing such plump, peach perfection was nature transformative. Dorothy had those slippers, Dumbo has that feather, I got that ass. And for 23 minutes, I gave a surprising and apparently stunting performance. 

Topping is an art that requires rhythm. And honestly, there are moments that reminded me of the time I was drunk at a Chaka Khan concert and thought I knew the electric slide. It’s been over a year later, and Sup was just texting me last night. I’m a good top. He’s not a frequent diner, but he’s a regular. He’s a mostly straight bisexual, which explains the khaki cargo shorts. I’ve decided for now that I’m polyamorous, a word almost as annoying as libertarian. But I’m not sure I’d want to give up this thot life. I was raised a crazy jealous person, and it’s been freeing to get to know guys without trying to shape the relationship into anything except respectful. Also, I’ve never fucked so many hot guys in my life. I wish I could share face and dick pics with you and create my own version of the game Memory to play on rainy days when my ass is broken. 

Two years ago, I was sure I’d love my ex monogamously and forever. Of course, there are times when I really miss that security. Even him. Now I have no idea what my romantic future is, which often leads to wine, YouTube sing-alongs, and extreme bonding with my cat. Oh, yes, meow meow! But I do know this. I’m not the once-in-a-blue-moon bottom I used to be before. I’m not limited to older versions of myself. I might be a true vers, or simply a more liberated vers bottom. Whatever the case, after years of monogamy, I am definitely a happy, poly thot. Thank you so much, everyone.

Karen Yates: Let’s give another hand for Archy Jamjun. Oh, wow, that was awesome. Thank you, Archy. I’d like to thank Rebellious Magazine, feminist media, for being the media sponsor for this show, as well as Full Color Life Therapy, a sublime supporter of Wild & Sublime. Also, you have Uberlube packets on your table. Take as many as you like. Love Uberlube. Thank you, Uberlube, for giving us this fabulous silicone lubricant. I would like to thank our Patreon supporters for being monthly members and sustaining the show. It is really wonderful to have folks that every month contribute a little bit of money, or a lot of money, as they see fit. 

So, now we’re going to come — oh, you know what, before we come — there were so many prompts! Let me go through some more. “It might be weird, but sirens, and unrelatedly, people’s summertime calves. Men, women, NB calves turn me on.” Mmm. “Dudes holding fish in profile pics.” I’m sorry, I almost ripped that up. Don’t fucking encourage them. Or the SeaWorld pictures. Stop, stop, stop. Okay. Yeah, that’s right. I am yucking someone’s yum. If you like dudes holding fish, rock on. I will open my heart to you. All right. “It might be weird, but girls with lederhosen and Doc Martens turn me on.” I saw this a lot at Oktoberfest. “It might be weird, but I got really wet once when a guy told me what was on his bookshelf.” “It might be weird, but being hunted turns me on.” Yeah, I hear you. “It might be weird, but being stroked with something soft while being flogged turns me on.” “It might sound weird, but squeaking bed springs really turn me on.” Right on. “When the juices flow down my balls.” “Asking about my day.” 

Okay, that was that. All right? Well, if you’ve been here, you know, it is time for my Sermon on the Pubic Mound. Final moment of the evening. So here we are. Fourth anniversary. And I have to say that making it to the fourth anniversary is as much about you as it is about me. You came to the show, consistently to the live events, you told people in the community, your various communities, about the show, you told friends about it. You told clients about it. You came on this stage, whether or not you are a trained professional and shared your wisdom and experience. You gave me advice. You gave me your wisdom. You became a member of Patreon, or a sponsor of the show, which was so critical for keeping the show going. I just want to thank you. I feel so much appreciation for all of the community support around this show. It has meant so much. And some of you may have wondered at some point: “Wow. She keeps going. Why is she keeping the lights on, especially during the pandemic?” And I decided to start the podcast and keep going, and you know, somebody’s – we’re operating at a deficit, right? But why did I do it? 

I do it because I believe in sexual freedom. I believe that we have the right to explore our gender, our sexuality, all of it, within a conceptual framework. That is the essence of sex positivity. And I want people to be free. I want people to know that there are as many choices about sex and gender as live in the imagination. We have so many choices. I want people to know that full sexual expression can be glorious and life affirming and electrifying. And many of you in this audience know that. But many other people don’t. So, the show continues. And here we are, finishing out year four. We have done more exploring this year; we’ve pondered more. And here is the beginning of year five. I feel so much appreciation. My heart is so full. Thank you. 

To learn more about Archy and Stranger, go to the show notes. Did you know all Wild & Sublime supporters on Patreon get ticket discounts to our live show, as well as being able to partake in our monthly Q&A with experts, and get other benefits? Your Patreon membership helps Wild & Sublime produce this podcast, and really supports us. You can also help by throwing some bucks in our tip jar or forwarding on this episode. All links to giving are in our show notes. Thank you so much. 

Wild & Sublime is supported in part by our Sublime Supporter, Full Color Life Therapy, therapy for all of you at fullcolorlifetherapy.com.

Well, that’s it folks. Have a very pleasurable week. Thank you for listening. If you know someone who might be interested in this episode, send it to them. Do you like what you heard? Then give us a nice review on your podcast app. You can follow us on social media @wildandsublime and sign up for newsletters at wildandsublime.com. I’d like to thank associate producer Julia Williams and design guru Jean-Francois Gervais. Theme Music by David Ben-Porat. This episode was edited by The Creative Imposter studios. Our media sponsor is Rebellious Magazine, feminist media, at rebelliousmagazine.com.