S4E5 | Intimacy Help, Pegging How-Tos, and More: Feb Live Show

Wild & Sublime Podcast Transcript

S4E5 | Intimacy Help, Pegging How-Tos, and More: Feb Live Show

Cooper Beckett: When I say an endless prostate orgasm — I probably had, like, a 20-minute orgasm. But at the same time, the aftershocks lasted an additional 30 minutes. I was getting dinner, and I had to have someone else hold the tongs and get me a deviled egg, because I physically would not stop shaking! [laughter]

Karen Yates: Welcome to Wild & Sublime, a sexy spin on infotainment®, no matter your preferences, orientation, or relationship style, based on the popular live Chicago show. I chat about sex and relationships with citizens from the world of sex positivity. You’ll hear meaningful conversations, dialogues that go deeper, and information that can help you become more free in your sexual expression. I’m sex educator and intimacy coach Karen Yates.  This week, the recording of our live Valentine’s Spectacular in Chicago. We discuss intimacy how-tos, pegging, plus, what’s on your sex bucket list? And more. Keep listening.  Do you want to connect with your partner more easily? Download my free publication, Say It Better in Bed! 3 Proven Ways to Improve Intimate Communication. Learn effective things to say and do, leaving the guessing game behind. Whether you’re in a long term relationship or hooking up once, you will come away with simple yet powerful ideas to boost your sexual communication skills. Go to the show notes or karen-yates.com to download your FREE guide.  Hey, folks. So glad to be with you. This has been a very dramatic month for me personally, and I’m very grateful that I’m feeling better than I did 30 days ago, when I went through a very shocking series of events. And more on that in a bit. But let me just say, I am feeling super grateful right now to be able to do this podcast, and very excited about this podcast. So it is amazing how just simply overnight, things can change and change your perspective on so much. So today, we’ll be hearing our recent live February 11 show at Constellation in Chicago. After three years, we returned there, and it was fantastic to be back. Constellation is a much bigger house than the Hungry Brain’s cabaret space, so we were able to do the show, plus have some burlesque, and in the second half of the night, after what you’ll hear here, we moved into the Afterglow, a very delicious mingle with a Tantra demonstration by Goddess Erica with audience participation, Q&A with our panel, an RPG on consent by Rowan Tree, plus vendors such as T-Time Toys, handmade leather harnesses and accessories by Emma Alamo, Wild & Sublime merch was on sale, plus free Uberlube samples for everyone! And I got to chat with a number of Patreon members as well. I hope you can make it to the next show. The date will be announced soon. And if you become a Patreon member, you’ll know first and get a ticket discount.  So now, for the episode lineup. Act one: intimacy how-tos. How do you get closer to someone? How do you get close enough to ask for what you really want? Our panel discusses these issues and more. Act two: storyteller and activist RC Riley recounts a strong tale of justice and sexual liberation. Followed by an interview with the authors of “The Pegging Book,” here to tell you that the endless prostate orgasms you’ve heard so much about on Reddit are real, dammit. We’ll end with my Sermon on the Pubic Mound, where I go in depth about the recent health emergency that prompted Matthew Amador joining me as emcee of the night’s proceedings — aand I’m so glad he said yes, because he totally rocked the house.  This live Wild & Sublime show and my recording today take place on the unceded lands of the Council of Three Fires, the Ojibwe, Odawa and Potawatomi nations, also colonially known as Chicago. If you want to learn more about the tribal lands you are residing on, there are many resources online to help you do so. We’ll now jump right into the show. You’ll be hearing some answers to the prompt we gave the audience that night: “My number one sex or kink bucket list desire is…” Enjoy. [in front of live audience] Woo, what a night! I want to talk a little bit about the sponsors for the show tonight, for the February live show. Rowan Tree Counseling is our main show sponsor. I want to thank them. [applause] Are you there? Okay, thank you. And Full Color Life Therapy is our Sublime Supporter. Thank you, Full Color Life Therapy. So, more prompts. “My number one kink or sex bucket list desire is abandoning the American workforce to serve the feminine divine full-time.” [applause and cheering] “My number one sex or kink bucket list desire is finger cuffs position with two women, two straps and a dude between us.” That’s very complex. I like the imagination. I like that. All right. “My number one sex or kink bucket list desire is pegging a dude really good while lecturing and shaming him about his role in the patriarchy.” [cheers and applause] Okay! [giggles] I realized when I put this this topic together — it wasn’t until like, yesterday that I’m like, Whoa, this is really complex. [laughs] When we talk about intimacy, some people think physical intimacy. Other people think emotional intimacy. So I would love to sort of get into both of them tonight. So, let’s define intimacy. And Andie, why don’t we start with you? “My number one sex or kink bucket list desire is sex with Denzel Washington. Not a kink, but absolutely something I need before I die.” All right. And on that note — still have more to come later — it is time for our panel discussion. Tonight, we have “The rules of engagement: how to negotiate the intimacy you want.” And on the panel tonight ,for a very juicy conversation, I’m sure, is sex positive therapist Andie Baumgartner of Rowan Tree Counseling, sex coach Tazima Parris, and sex-positive therapist Matthew Amador. Come on up.

Andie Baumgartner: Gosh, okay. I think for me, intimacy is one of those things that like, I don’t know that I can define it necessarily. But you know, you know when you see it, you know when you feel it, right?

Matthew Amador: Like porn.

Andie Baumgartner: Like fetish content, exactly. But in thinking about it, I’m like, well, when I when I feel it, what am I responding to? And I think the things that I’m responding to when I feel it are warmth and trust and connection. So I think those are the things that make up intimacy. Does that count as a definition?

Karen Yates: Yeah, for sure.

Andie Baumgartner: That’s what I’ve got.

Karen Yates: Yeah.

Tazima Parris: So, I hold intimacy is the space where anyone — people, humans who are engaging with one another — are expressing themselves as accurately as possible, and feeling safe to do so. I think it’s that space. That’s the space of intimacy, that accuracy of ‘this is the truest I can be at this moment.’ And there being a safe space in which to do that.

Karen Yates: Love that. Matthew?

Matthew Amador: I love that, because there’s like a familiarity to it. There’s a closeness, but it’s not just physical. It’s not just emotional. It could be spiritual, it could be any aspect of these. And I love how broadly we’re all talking about this. Because a lot of people I think of intimacy as having to be, like, capital-I intimacy, and it has to be like one thing, and it has to be heavy. But there can be something so intimate in just being on the couch. There can also be, like, dungeon time, yes. But also, it doesn’t have to be that. You can also have it just like yeah, just looking in the in the refrigerator with each other. What are we gonna snack on?

Tazima Parris: Snacks are intimate.

Karen Yates: So, a lot of times people get very afraid. You know, with intimacy I think comes this — not expectation of vulnerability, but intimacy and vulnerability kind of go hand in hand. And basically speaking up about what they might need physically, or what they might need emotionally. Can you all kind of talk about the various fears that come up for people around speaking about what they need, and what they want?

Tazima Parris: I’ll pop in. Part of what is hard about intimacy is that our sexual desires are things that really matter to us, are super personal. It’s not like oh, the weather, which is impersonal — it’s happening to everyone. Our sexual desires, or things that are close to our hearts, are super personal. And everyone is somewhat concerned about being judged for that. And so, it takes crazy amounts of courage, especially in this super-shaming society where you can’t be fully yourself — or like, the fact that flying your freak flag is even a thing means that people don’t feel safe to share their true selves. And as I always say, like, you cannot get to the land of intimacy unless you go through the valley of vulnerability. They just go together. And so, the vulnerability goes with the intimacy because of how personal it is, because of how much we may feel exposed. And if it doesn’t feel safe in us for us to do that, we’re gonna probably hold back.

Matthew Amador: I love this quest, Tazima. Let’s go through the valley of vulnerability to get to — is this a Lord of the Rings thing? I’m here for it! You can be part of my fellowship.

Andie Baumgartner: Let’s go! You asked about fears. I think — I mean, a big one, I think, obviously — is the fear of rejection, right? That you’re gonna make a request or a bid for intimacy or, you know, tell someone this deep, dark, personal kind of of need that you have, and that for whatever reason, you’ll be rejected, right? Because that person doesn’t share that need, that that person is not there with you. I think rejection is really scary in those moments. That’s why it feels vulnerable, as we’re — as Tazima said, like, we’re exposing a very personal piece of ourselves. And the idea that that might not be returned, or might not be met with the same energy is really scary.

Karen Yates: Sure, sure.

Matthew Amador: And how often does our brain just play telephone? When when we’re being vulnerable with somebody, and they might not share that same enthusiasm back at us, do we start judging ourselves?

Karen Yates: Of course.

Matthew Amador: They may not even say that directly, but the brain just plays telephone. So it can be an another layer of just a projection that we just kind of took on ourselves. It’s very brave. Yeah.

Tazima Parris: And I also want to add in this digital age, there’s sometimes these gaps in communication. Like, you may text something that feels vulnerable, or like, message someone, and then there’s the space. And then what we feel, like because our heritage is anxiety. The anxious ones are the ones who survived, okay? [audience laughter] We are the children of anxious humans. And so with that anxiety, like, we just fill that space with our fucking remixed terrors. Like, that’s what’s happening. And so we’re like [breathes in], and then it usually isn’t that bad! But the space in between.  No, meanwhile, they’re just like, “No, I was driving. It’s not that deep.”you cannot get to the land of intimacy unless you go through the valley of vulnerability

Matthew Amador: You’re like, I see it says ‘read,’ but that actually says ‘judgment.’ That — no, see, that means you hate me.

Karen Yates: So how do we work through these, like, in baby steps? How do we work through the fears of — let’s say, it can be with someone you’ve just met, but it can be someone that you’ve been with for a while. How do we,  just start making these different steps? Taking baby steps? How do we begin?

Matthew Amador: Well, yeah, not all of us are fortunate enough to be thrown into a mandatory intimate moment, like Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock in Speed, or… [audience laughter] Or maybe you have! There’s laughter. Maybe that is a very common thing that I’m unaware of. The CTA is kookoo-bananas, y’all. Or like, all of like, the Fast and Furious family — because again, intimacy doesn’t have to just be romantic. It can be it can be platonic; it can be a mixture of Platonic and romantic. We don’t have these dramatic moments to necessarily fall on. I always think that one thing to help take baby steps towards that is self-compassion. Is being able –before you can actually build that house, looking at that foundation within ourselves to say, Hey, am I okay with this? Can I be okay with what I need? Am I okay with saying it out loud?

Andie Baumgartner: I like to recommend also, just kind of very practically, starting with maybe very small, low stakes asks. And in any relationship, right? This doesn’t have to be a romantic relationship. It can be familial; it can be a close friend. Low stakes — something as simple as, like, I would like a cup of tea. Could you make me a cup of tea? Right? Like, I’m feeling thirsty. Could you get me a glass of water? And it feels so simple, but that’s the point, right? It’s still the same mechanism. It’s still voicing a need that you are feeling in yourself.

Karen Yates: And I could see how that would be frightening for people, even the could you make me a cup of tea?

Andie Baumgartner: Right? Sometimes it is. And if that’s where you’re at, that’s okay. But there’s a way to start from even there. And so I think if you start with those kind of low stakes asks, A, it’s a little bit easier to hear a no. Right? And so, I do realize that there’s, you know, a huge leap between, “Can you make me a cup of tea” and like, “Do you want to go to a swingers party,” right? Like, there’s a huge gulf there. And probably there are intermediate steps. But it’s the same mechanism. You’re still learning how to make a request. You’re still learning how to hear maybe “no” in a way that is not a red light, perhaps, but is an invitation for negotiation, a way that is, you know, maybe not as emotional heightened as “Do you want to tie me up in public,” right? So, start with small, everyday things. Ask for them, even when maybe you don’t necessarily need them, you would just like them.

Tazima Parris: So, inside of the baby steps, and the starting small, and low-stakes requests, there are a lot of people out here who — it’s not just scared to ask for help; it’s that they’ve been spending so much time doing everything for everyone else, they don’t even know what they want. [murmurs from crowd] And so literally — she’s like, okay! Here’s what you do: make a list of the things you like. And then ask people to participate. If it’s that tea; if it’s the rope class that you want to attend, or whatever. And it might literally be, I want to go to counseling. So, it’s slowing down — what do I want? What do I need? What do I like? And then starting to share little bits of those things, and savoring for them for ourselves. Because one thing that comes up when people are making requests that makes small stakes requests even higher stakes is that there’s been so much frustration, resentment, lack of satisfaction, that it feels terrifying to be rejected again, or not get what they want. And so, giving that to ourselves first really helps us to manage and diminish the resentment.

Matthew Amador: It’s also so common, because so many of us have been brought up, or our brain plays telephone and we have told ourselves that we have to be able to do this for ourselves. We have to be able to be the one who can do this, because we can’t trust anybody else. We can’t rely on anybody else, because there’s a history of people being inconsistent. And we need to realize that everybody is thinking this at times in our lives. Ninety-nine percent. Maybe there’s this one person who’s, like, awesome. But we’re all for the most part feeling this, and there should be no guilt or shame. Because everybody has these feelings from time to time. Even us, even us. I — have you? I don’t want to speak for everybody here, but…

Tazima Parris:  I’m on it. Yeah.

Matthew Amador: There we go. Word. Yeah, yeah.

Andie Baumgartner: It’s unanimous.

Matthew Amador: Yeah, thank you. There was a time this week when my partner was like, saw me run around and was like, “Can I just make you a sandwich?” And I was “Ack… yeah!” And they’re like, “Matt, it’s no big deal. It’s just a fucking — I got a tortilla, I’ll wrap some stuff, good.” And I’m like, “No, no, no!” It’s so important. But those little things just really — I have to remind myself: let them happen.

Karen Yates: Yeah. So, how and when should we talk about what we want? For some folks, that can be insanely vulnerable. Is there is there a specific time? Should it be in the middle of sex…?

Tazima Parris:  No!

Karen Yates: I was telling Tazima, I cued this up.

Matthew Amador: It’s afterwards, right? It’s afterwards. When they leave the review.

Tazima Parris: [snickers] And also — you’re both right. So — thanks. Thanks.

Matthew Amador: I love you.

Tazima Parris: Love you too. So there’s before, during, and after sex. There are different things that you say before, during and after sex. This seems like it would make sense, but no one does it, because people don’t have conversations about sex, other than with their friends, and not with their partners. The before sex conversation is planning, kind of requests. And even before the before conversation, you have to have the before conversation with yourself that is your yes, no, maybe list. What are you a yes to? What are you an absolute no to? What’s a maybe? That conditions may support you being able to have it be a yes. Okay. Once you have that, you can come together and have that before. Here’s what I want to do. Most people don’t have a conversation about sex and what they want to do before they have sex. They just think it’s supposed to be the wordless montage that they see in the movies, where no one farts or sweats, or has to change position because they’re getting a cramp. Okay? That’s not real. During sex, there are more, like, adjustments — like, I’m getting a cramp. Or, let’s try the thing that’s on the maybe list. Those are the things that you say during the sex, but keep it super simple, so that you don’t take each other out of the moment and the sensation. If you get too intellectual — like, do you like this? Do I like this? It’s over. Then after after sex is where you give feedback and make new requests. And the feedbacks might sound like, I really liked this thing and that thing that we tried, I really don’t like it and I don’t ever want to have it again, ever. Or, I want more of XYZ. And then you can also make new plans for the next time you’re going to engage with this person. So this is a whole way of being that is not even a thing that people even really talk about, but sex communication can be really, really super helpful. And it can create intimacy; it can create a connection, that sense of belonging, and not being weird inside the sex. If you have this good, high-quality communication, like, then so many things can happen! You can be in the flow. It doesn’t have to be like hiccupy. But even if it’s hiccupy, you can laugh about it. By the way, if you’re not laughing during sex, you’re not, just…

Andie Baumgartner: Sex is hilarious. It’s hilarious.

Tazima Parris: Sex is really funny!

Matthew Amador: People frequently laugh at me when I’m having sex.

Tazima Parris: Where can I sign up to watch you? [general laughter]

Andie Baumgartner: Is there an OnlyFans…?

Karen Yates: [to listeners] I then ask what you should do if you ask for something that could be both surprising and unwanted by the other person.

Andie Baumgartner: This is really tough. This is a really hard place to be in, I think, if you are in a monogamous relationship where you bring a desire to your partner, and there’s a no, or there’s even a, euh, I don’t know. I think that’s really tough. I think one of the things you can do — and I’ll be interested to hear what Matthew and Tazima have to say, because this is, I think, really complicated — but I think perhaps you talk about, you know, okay, well, I’m not into that thing, necessarily. But what is the emotional state that you’re trying to achieve from that? Or what is the thing about it that appeals to you? And here’s the thing that I’m not sure appeals to me. Because I think for a lot of for a lot of things, they aren’t necessarily a monolith, right? Like, maybe you’re not into impact, right. But maybe you’re not into impact in public, or maybe you’re not into impact in a certain context. Maybe there are places that the interest overlaps, or that that can work. Maybe we need to boil it down to an emotional state that you’re hoping to reach. And maybe there’s another way that we can achieve that for you. Maybe… yeah, I’m not sure. I’m, I’m interested to hear what–

Tazima Parris: For those who don’t know what impact is, it means play that includes spanking or striking, hitting, paddles. Impact play. And it is super vulnerable. And getting a ‘no’ can feel really scary, and I think it’s important that we identify what is the No? Because it might not be a blanket No. Or it might not be a blanket — it might be a no for now; it might be a temporal thing, where I’m not ready at this moment, or there’s a condition that needs to be met. But this is a better conversation to be had while clothes are on. But if it happens, you know, during sex,  you can still decline and say, let’s talk about it later, though.

Andie Baumgartner: I think that’s really important when you’re making a request, particularly if it’s out of nowhere. And hopefully, if your clothes are on. But that you expect to perhaps not reach an agreement in that first conversation. That you expect for each other to need space — to sit with it, to consider it, to research it, to really understand their own yes or no. Right. So I think it’s helpful if you can come into that first conversation expecting that there will be a second conversation.

Matthew Amador: And also, if someone asks something of you, at any time, if it’s been discussed previously, or there’s just like in the middle of it, you can always change your mind. You can say, Okay, and then — but that doesn’t mean it’s an absolute. You can always change your mind.

Karen Yates: What is the line between them being willing to try something new, and the hard “No”? Or like, I’m not sure how I feel about this, but I don’t really — I’m not going to know until I’m in it. This is where consent comes in. Right? But like this idea — I love this — like, we can always change our mind. Right?

Tazima Parris: I think this space of the figuring it out on the fly is a skill that you can build — of, how do I feel right now? What’s going on for me right now? This is not something that most people are good at, because of how we’ve been shamed about our feelings, shamed about our opinions, shamed about saying no to people — or like, “go hug your auntie.” We train children to not have their body autonomy. And so we’re out of touch with our bodies. And so, getting in touch with that little, like, “hmm, something doesn’t feel right” — listen to that thing. Because that’s letting you know some information, important data about how you feel about the situation. So yeses feel a certain way in your body. Nos feel a certain way in your body. And the maybe, or the “I need more information” also has a sensation in your body. Your body is incredibly wise. This takes some self work, to be able to know that. This is not — what we’re talking about are some advanced concepts. Like, if you don’t have the support to get there, it can be really challenging to figure this out on your own.

Karen Yates: But I’d also like to say that these types of ambiguous moments, where you’re really figuring them out, these are the moments that will also build intimacy. Give them a round of applause. [applause] If you’d like more information on Andie Baumgartner from Rowan Tree Counseling, Matthew Amador and Tazima Parris, go to the show notes.  Do you want to create a podcast but feel a little overwhelmed? Can I suggest Buzzsprout as the easiest and best way to launch, promote and track your podcast? Buzzsprout is a podcast host with both free and paid plans. By using them, your podcast gets listed in all major podcast directories, like Apple, Spotify, Google, and more. And you get a website.  They are great with support, and I especially love them because their newsletter and podcast offer tons of tips for growing your pod. A friend recommended them to me, and now I am recommending them to you. And if you say that Wild & Sublime sent you by clicking on our affiliate link in the show notes, you get 20 bucks and we get 20 bucks, which is a pretty good deal. Go to the show notes to begin.  We now return to the second half of the episode, where Matthew Amador takes over as emcee. You’ll be hearing a rich story told by the accomplished RC Riley, then a probing interview — sorry — on pegging, with authors of “The Pegging Book,” Cooper Beckett and Lyndzi Miller, followed then by my Sermon on the Pubic Mound, where I discuss the recent dramatic events in my life. Enjoy.

Matthew Amador: We have some more prompts. “My number one sex or kink bucket list desire is a project-managed orgy.” Some spreadsheets going on. You’ll “Excel” at that one. [audience groans] Haha. Yeah, groan it up! “My number one sex or kink bucket list desire is prolonged heavy rubber encasement.” Yeah, there we go. That’s it. “My number one sex or kink bucket list desire is being in the middle in a male-male-female daisy chain.” [sings] I think you found my letters, and read each one aloud…  We have another performer coming up next. Our next artist is a performer, activist and podcast host seeking to empower the marginalized. On their journey, they began writing as a means of healing, and are here tonight as a survivor to tell us how justice is best served by a sexually liberated warrior human. Yes, right? Those are some words. Please give it up for the extremely talented RC Riley.

RC Riley:Thank you for that, Matthew. I appreciate that. Let me see if I can live up to all of that. When my niece was a teenager, she used to say to me, “Auntie, it’s not my fault that grown men look at me.” You see, she was quite developed as a teen, and this auntie couldn’t handle the responsibility of unwanted attention on her. She grew angry and frustrated with me. And by the time she was in her 20s, she came to tell me, “Auntie, I don’t think you were being fair when I was younger. I shouldn’t have been punished, silenced or shamed because of what some ignorant, toxic grown man might say or do to me.” Now in hindsight, I agree. But at the time, all I could think was that, as her supposed protector, I couldn’t bear the thought of someone dismissing me to harm her emotionally, physically or sexually — because it happened to me. By the time my niece turned 30, I had shared this story that occurred while she was younger.  I remember one day, while out on a date with a woman, a man walked over, to my displeasure, ignoring our obvious handholding and gentle touches that demonstrated that we were together. He began to hit on her, and overlooked me  effortlessly. I politely asked her he refrained from interrupting. Mid-sentence, he yanked me from my seat, pulled me to the door, and told me to never try and stop a grown man. Did I understand? He was stronger. He proved that. But what he was really showing was that because his humaneness was represented as a male, he was supposed to be with a she, and she was not supposed to be with me. If a stranger would so boldly disregard the essence of me, how much more disregard might he have for a teenage mini-me? I know you all are thinking at this point in the story that you didn’t come to hear this — but hold up. Wait a minute. I know. You’re really thinking, Come on. [sings] Let’s talk about sex, baby! But can you indulge me for a moment as I digress? I’d like to share a few things that if you aren’t paying close attention, you might just miss.  Yes, I’m black and I’m proud. That’s quite obvious. Sure. I’ve been known to chant, “I’m queer, and I’m here.” But I also want to share for your delight that I shout in ecstasy for hallelujahs and orgasms alike. And for that trivia question of what does RC really like? The answer isn’t as obvious, so I’ll give you this one. [sings] I love music, just as long as it’s groovin. Now, that was your praise break in case you missed your cue. [cheering] For me, my praise, my pain, and my power are profoundly connected. Some might even say intertwined. I was a survivor turned warrior human, who was deeply wounded emotionally. And it just so happens that one of the weapons I acquired during my healing journey is my strong, centered and unapologetic sexuality. Does that frighten you? Oh, it does most. But let me school you for a moment before I’m ghost.  A weapon can be used to defend with or without harm to another. It can also be used to protect, to shield and to ensure justice for each other. During my healing journey, others ridiculed me for being unsure of who to love, and for choosing to date twice my age above. I was learning and growing and developing my skills. And today, I am not afraid to bring myself pleasure first, and then others thrills. Now before your dirty mind starts to go down the wrong path, let me just say that if you know what you’re doing, you don’t have to engage in conventional s-e-x to make someone confess that they love you enough to want to drink your bathwater. Initially, my pain made me want revenge; then I heard the voice of the Divine say clear and fiercely, “Vengeance is mine.” Now, if you follow my socials, you may notice I shout “Praise God from whom all blessings flow,” then holler vagina, nonbinary, masturbation, and clitoris. Don’t you know? Some call me contradictory. They say, how can she profess to love God and live so frivolously? At that I scoff, for my frivolity is none of their damn business, unless they tryin’ to get with me. I say I was designed by the Divine to be just who I am. I mean, how many other sexy, gorgeous, black queer humans are standing at this mic with me? You see, I stand here confidently so that those who have felt marginalized, left out and forgotten by society can see that what others tried to snuff out — their spirit, their shine and their destiny — will still be. I seek and I fight for justice for those who may be too afraid or ashamed to stand here next to me. I speak for those who have been ridiculed by friends, shamed by family, and cast out of faith communities. I stand here on the second Saturday of Black History Month to say to my niece, other young girls and young women, I will fight to make this world a place where you can walk comfortably in a tight t-shirt, low-rise jeans, a crop top, or naked and be respected, accepted and understood by more than our higher power and me. Thank you. [applause] Give it up one more time. RC Riley! Also available for speaking engagements — please go to their website for information about that. Thank you so much. Thank you for just what a winning example of how other people put shame on us. That shame thrives in silence. You brought something into the light, and it doesn’t have the power over us anymore. Thank you so much.

Matthew Amador: Now, are you ready for some butt stuff? This side, are you ready for some butt stuff? You all ready for some butt stuff? Now that I see, I know you are. You ready for some butt stuff over here? Okay, because now we have Cooper Beckett and Lyndzi Miller, who have written a fantastic book about pegging, asking all the important questions. How do I do it? What tools do I need? Will it make me gay? All things Mike Pence asked when downloading the Taylor Swift album. So, without further ado, I bring on Cooper Beckett, Lyndzi Miller, and incomparable Karen Yates.

Karen Yates: Welcome. I loved the book. So, let’s talk about — I mean, I would say that probably 90% of the people in this room know about how the word pegging came about, but in case you don’t: How did the word pegging come about?

Cooper Beckett: Well, a long time ago…. There’s a lot of controversy surrounding Dan Savage. And so we don’t want to give him credit for the word.

Karen Yates: Never.

Cooper Beckett: But what what he did was he polled his audience. Apparently, he did not like the word pegging, because he has an aunt named Peg. And so, tried to push it away from the poll. It won anyway.

Karen Yates: He wanted to find a word for a strap-on — a cis female strap — because at the time, he was, like–

Cooper Beckett: It was a very specific–

Lyndzi Miller: It was very heteronormative at the time.

Karen Yates: Very heteronormative. Cis female strap-on dildo into a cis male’s anus.

Cooper Beckett: Yes.

Karen Yates: Okay.

Cooper Beckett: It was the weirdest, most specific sex act ever.

Lyndzi Miller: That he had gotten a lot of questions about it. So he needed a word.

Cooper Beckett: Everyone wanted to do it. But it was very specific.

Karen Yates: This is the interesting question then — my first question is, Lyndzi, do you think Dan Savage was picking up on a cultural zeitgeist, and that’s– or did he kind of move it along? I mean, the fact he was getting so many letters, is this what was–?

Lyndzi Miller: Yeah, I think that was the catalyst, of needing a word, because he was getting so much through his advice column. He was getting so many questions, and he needed something to refer to it as. And yes, he didn’t come up with the word. I think his his choice was punting, which…

Cooper Beckett: Yeah, which doesn’t…

Lyndzi Miller: Not great. Doesn’t work. But no, yeah, he created the the poll that eventually came up with the word pegging.

Cooper Beckett: Yes.

Karen Yates: So, how much of gender and power is at the heart of the pegging act?

Cooper Beckett: There’s like, six chapters in there about this. It’s really a strange thing. Because because it is so specific in its original definition — that it is a cis woman wearing a strap-on. Pegging is fucking a cis man. As we were writing it, we had to unlearn some of our own biases around the gendered aspect of it. Because really, it’s about connecting to an area that people are often very afraid to connect with — the butt. And, you know, especially especially the masses of men in this country who are really overwhelmed by the idea — whether it’s, you know, it is really fun to make fun of people who are afraid of being gay when they peg. But at the same time, it is a legitimate thought, simply because it’s been pounded into us. [laughter] And I realized that as I was saying it — that that is only for this subset of our society. So if you enjoy this, you must acknowledge your gayness.

Lyndzi Miller: And we really wanted to make a concerted effort to de-gender the term, because — and we, you know, the title of our book is, “A complete guide to anal sex with a strap-on dildo.” We don’t need to say that it’s about a man or a woman, that it’s about cis person or not. And we wanted to recognize that nonbinary people exist, and they get to peg too. So yeah, we wanted to take gender out of the equation.

Cooper Beckett: And at the same time, we chose to use a term, “The Pegging Book” — the term doesn’t need to exist. It can just be anal sex; it can just be strap-on sex. But because it exists, we recognize that the audience that needed to hear our voice would only buy it if they thought it was this. If we make too big a deal about the fact, well, everybody can do it, they don’t feel as special, so they’re not going to give us money. And if they don’t give us money, and they don’t read the book, they’re not going to hear the things that they need to be hearing, which is that it isn’t necessarily gendered.

Karen Yates: So, let me ask you this. On the cover, it says, “Anal sex with a strap-on dildo.” Let’s talk. What is the difference? Yeah. And what I like is, you can just stick this in your back pocket.

Cooper Beckett: It’s a little book. It’s a very cute little book.

Karen Yates: Very cute. But how do you really define in terms of power, gender, what have you, the difference between strap-on play, and just, like, dildo play, just like insertion? What’s the difference there?

Cooper Beckett: One is, it’s attached. I think.

Lyndzi Miller: Yeah. I mean, the object of a harness does kind of attach it to your body in a way that sometimes actually feels more like it’s part of you. So that could be a connection element into the sex play that can be very different than holding it with your hand.

Karen Yates: Right. It gets back to the power. Yes, yeah.

Cooper Beckett: And there’s the difference between the extension of your hand, and the extension of your self.

Karen Yates: It’s like being a wizard?

Cooper Beckett: Yes, I get that very much. Yes. To go back to the Lord of the Rings thing. But it’s coming from your midsection, and the midsection is where most of the sex tends to happen.

Karen Yates: As a somatic educator, I’m loving this. Yes, the mid-section, waaaah.

Cooper Beckett: The mid area, this area here. And so, it’s just — you know, there’s a lot of discussion about what the value is for the pegger. Because it is not a sensation device, generally. The dildo cannot send the neurons and all that information back into you. But at the same time, it is that you are making a bodily connection. And I think that’s the part that makes it important.

Karen Yates: So let’s talk about the P-spot — you know, as opposed to the G spot. What is it? What is the P spot? And how is it different than a prostate exam? Like, when you’re doing P-spot massage? [laughter]

Cooper Beckett: Well–

Lyndzi Miller: Very different.

Cooper Beckett: As someone who’s had a prostate exam — the doctor wanted to get it over as quickly as possible, so he lubes and pokes. That’s it. There is nothing worse than a pokey butt play. And nobody in that situation wants to enjoy it. Nobody! Therefore, the prostate, it’s this part of the body that we only really think of when you’re an older man and you need to get it checked because it might self-destruct on you and cause cancer. But at the same time, you know, we talk a lot about the fact that we’re not doctors in this book. But we acknowledge the fact that in the womb, everyone was the same. And then at some point, ovaries descend and become testicles, or they say ovaries; the clit tries to get as far away from the body as possible and becomes a penis. We are all the same. Therefore, the prostate has no purpose in in the female body. But it tends to feel exactly like the G spot. So if we make the acknowledgement that the G spot and the prostate are basically the same thing — and as someone who’s had my fingers in a man and a woman at the same time, and felt both becoming engorged, and both feel like that squishy walnut — it’s the same fucking thing! Which means we both have a major pleasure center. And in general, men are just ignoring it.  So I want to talk, Lyndzi, before we get on to like, the extended orgasm that massaging of prostate can give you. I had Searah Deysach on the show a couple of months ago. And she was talking about how butt play was basically the great untold story of the pandemic. [laughter] And you… And you, you are an educator at the Tool Shed, correct? Up in Milwaukee? And I think I was reading in the book that there were a lot of anal sex classes. That they just kept sellng out and selling out, correct?

Lyndzi Miller: Yes. So Cooper and I had initially had a class at the Tool Shed, which is an erotic boutique in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And we always sold out. Yeah, it was — I mean, it’s a small store. We could have like 30, 40 people basically. But we always sold out, every time we had the class. And during the pandemic, that was when we decided we could make it an online class or we could write a book. And then we decided to go the book route. But yeah, there has been an interest for as long as I’ve been working there, which is a good, solid 12 years. And oftentimes, it’ll be folks coming in as a couple, whispering about like, “We want to… I’ve been thinking about pegging,” or we’ve been thinking about butt stuff. We want to buy a harness, our first toy together, you know? And yeah, it’s been it’s been increasing. I think as it’s been more popular in pop culture — it’s been in movies, it’s been on TV.

Karen Yates: You have a list of movies…

Lyndzi Miller: We have a list — of good and bad representation. TV show. They’re mostly bad — actually, almost all of them are bad. But there are a few great ones. And so, as that has becoming more popular, as the term has been becoming more popular, we have been getting a lot more customers interested in pegging, and even just just trying it out.

Cooper Beckett: And then in the pandemic, you get bored.

Karen Yates: You do.

Cooper Beckett: There’s not a lot to do.

Karen Yates: There wasn’t. That’s right.

Lyndzi Miller: A lot of people work from home, and I think they kind of got that, like, nooner energy that was lost. And so they were able to have a lot more sex and random paths.

Karen Yates: So, the very first time I read about this “endless prostate orgasm” was in a certain someone’s book on swinging…

Cooper Beckett: I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Karen Yates: [laughs] I remember I was just like, “Whaaaat?” Cooper, can you talk a little bit about this? When I’ve told guys about this, they’re like, [angry baby voice] “No, it’s not possible, that can’t happen!” So, I– [laughter] I’m curious about–

Cooper Beckett: Do they sound just like that when they say it?

Karen Yates: It’s this automatic, like, “Uh uh, uh uh! I can’t! There’s no way I’ll ever be able to have an orgasm like a woman. You guys can just come, and come, and come, and come! I can’t do that.” And I’m like, “Yes, you can! Cooper Beckett said so!”

Cooper Beckett: I like that I come up in your sex play. Okay, I had heard — I’ve had a podcast for a long time about nonmonogamy, and I had heard of a prostate orgasm. But nobody I knew had ever had one. I knew a lot of women who had squirting orgasms, and the endless cycle of the squirting orgasm. But then Tristan Tarantino, who wrote the foreword for our book, told me yes, I’ve seen it. I’ve made it happen. So yes, it’s possible. And then I did a yearly trip. Unfortunately, it has come to an end. But I did a yearly trip to Desire Resort in Mexico, which is Sandals for swingers. And I was demonstrating one toy for one friend, and I had the request, “Do you need anything?” And I said, “Well, I have a butt plug. Would you like to put it in for me? Because I’m focused on this other thing.” And she said, yeah, don’t worry, I’m a professional. And I didn’t know what that meant, but I continued with what I was doing. And she started doing what she was doing, which was not just putting the but plug in, but manipulating it, rhythmically and regularly, and I started, well, getting distracted from what I was doing. And my partner who I was playing with said, you know, I’m fine, you should just lay down! [laughter] And so I did, and she kept going, kept going, kept going, and–

Karen Yates: I know everyone’s on the edge of their seats!

Cooper Beckett: The best way I can explain it is, it was like a wave breaking, but the shore kept moving back. And so, the wave just kept breaking. And for me, that manifests as full-body shudders — like, full muscle tension and relax, and tension and relax. And when I say an endless prostate orgasm, I probably had like a 20 minute orgasm up on the top of this building in Mexico. Which is impressive, 20 minutes, but at the same time, the aftershocks lasted an additional 30 minutes. I was getting dinner, and I had to have someone else hold the tongs and get me a deviled egg, because I physically could not stop shaking. And I asked her, it’s like okay, that was a prostate orgasm, right? And she’s like, fuck yeah, I was a prostate orgasm. So one of the most amazing things to me is that — and I can ask Lyndzi to confer. I don’t like to speak for women. But the women I know who’ve had squirting orgasms that at first it was difficult to get to, but then it started to connect itself to other types of orgasms. And I found that to be true with the prostate orgasm. The shaky orgasm started only with very specific stimulation, and then just started to connect itself to other types of orgasms. Like, I I can have one with just general body stimulation. I believe one time during the pandemic I said, “Hell, the prostate just came online, all right!” Because it didn’t happen unexpectedly. And because it’s not an ejaculatory orgasm, your body doesn’t turn off afterwards, because that’s what evolutionarily we do after an orgasm: we shut down and relax. But with prostate orgasm, it just keeps going. And if you coax it a little bit more, it goes a little bit more. It’s unbelievable. And that’s why I became a prostelytizer — and I know the word is fun there — for prostate orgasms, because I firmly believe that — well, I mean, we’d all be a lot happier if we had a lot more orgasms. But it’s something so valuable, and so incredible, that men are just ignoring because of stigma.

Karen Yates: So, let’s take this from, you know, Mount Olympus and just kind of bring it back down to basics for the folks who really haven’t explored much. And so, Lyndzi, what would you say? Like, what is the easiest way to just begin exploration, keeping a low bar?

Lyndzi Miller: Especially for folks who haven’t explored the butt at all, a butt plug — and actually, even before that, before you spend any money, you come with factory-installed sex toys, and they’re called fingers. So if you’re a little squicked out about finger play, put a glove on. But you’ve got plenty of, you know, most of us have fingers that we can play with and we can use to manipulate the anus, the prostate if you have one. And that’s a good way to introduce the butt to play, to stimulation, and then maybe move into wearing a butt plug during other sex play — during intercourse, during oral sex, maybe wearing a vibrating butt plug to have a little bit more stimulation, and just kind of connect to the wires in your brain to something in the butt to pleasure. Because oftentimes, that wire doesn’t exist for some folks — you know, like, so it only is connected to other things, to prostate exams that aren’t sexual at all. So, to start connecting those wires and rewiring your brain to think, like, this is hot. The Pavlovian response of like, okay, I’m gonna play with this and I will orgasm during play, or I’ll orgasm after play. And so, that’s a good place to start. Again, finger play, small butt plug, and working your way up to something like a dildo or a toy of some kind, or more fingers–

Cooper Beckett: Yeah, this isn’t a “We want to do this tonight, so let’s go buy something and then do it tonight.”

Karen Yates:  Right.

Cooper Beckett: This is a longer process.

Karen Yates: Yeah, this is a very long process.

Lyndzi Miller: Oh, definitely. Two of the most important things are communication and lubrication. It can be.

Karen Yates: It can be.

Lyndzi Miller: Yeah.

Karen Yates: And lube.  Okay. Very good. So, “The Pegging Book”, you can get it on Amazon. You can get it on the Wild & Sublime affiliate link on bookshop.org.

Cooper Beckett: Whoa…

Karen Yates: Yeah, I know. I jumped on that one right away. It is around. “The Pegging Book,” highly recommend. Thank you, Cooper Beckett. Thank you, Lyndzi Miller. Appreciate it.

Lyndzi Miller: Thank you! [applause]

Matthew Amador: The things I did not realize I would learn from that interview: One — post sex, grab the tongs, get a deviled egg. Lightbulb moment, light bulb moment. Also, I never thought of it, but as someone who has a runaway clit… [laughter] Thanks for that jargon. Makes so much sense now. So, some people need no introduction. And I’m here to prove that I guess that’s not the case for the next person I’m bringing up on stage. For the past five years, she has been the host and producer of Wild & Sublime. She’s a somatic sex educator who works with couples to expand intimate communication skills, to bring more pleasure into their lives. And if you have at all listened to the Wild & Sublime podcast, you know that she has a very, very promising career ahead of her and ASMR. Please, please, please give it up for Karen Yates and her Sermon on the Pubic Mound.  [organ music plays]

Karen Yates: Oh my goodness. Um, hmm. As I was putting the show together, and then especially today, I was thinking about all of the ways that this show tonight interconnect. So we have “The Pegging Book.” And then we have the vendors, you know, T-Time Toys and Emma Alamo. So we’ve got this whole butt, lovely butt theme going. But then, you know, a while ago I got Tazima Parris and Matthew Amador and Andie Baumgartner on for this intimacy panel. And as I was putting my sermon together today, I thought, wow, talking about intimacy, and that is so up for me in my life right now. Being intimate. And the reason I am being confronted with intimacy right now is that about three weeks ago, I had a really major health emergency. I didn’t know it, but I had a seizure. And I went to the hospital — my very good friends came to my aid; they actually did a wellness check on me, because I had not shown up at a Zoom gathering that I show up every single week. And they they took me to the emergency room, and found out that I had a — benign, but a brain tumor. And I got operated on 36 hours later.  This happened so quickly, out of the blue, didn’t see any of this coming. And what was so incredible about this event for me is how people mobilized in my life to take care of me. I’m single. I have very little family. And you know, my best friend and all of my other close friends just came together, they had an actual summit meeting while I was in the hospital. And through all of this, there was this feeling coming up in me as people were helping me, because, hey, you know, when you’re in charge of a lot of things, guess what? It’s kind of hard being intimate and vulnerable. So, you know, my my friend is like, “Give me the passcode to your phone!” I was kind of like “Whaaat?” I was like oh, oh, okay. It was this like weird liminal state, of like, I don’t want to have people help me, but I’m so fucked up right now. People have to help me. And so people are like, Oh my gosh, we’re gonna we’re gonna get together and clean your apartment. I was like, whaaat, this is crazy. People are putting all these plans together for my benefit. And so, I couldn’t remember things, and that felt so weird to tell people, like, I can’t remember what I told you an hour ago. But long story short, the operation really, really went well. Obviously, it happened three weeks ago, and I’m sitting here now doing the show. [applause and cheers] And, you know, I always like to say, I was like, it was kind of maybe a little dumb doing the show. But then I was like, No, I was sitting backstage and like, I really love being here, and I really love doing the show! So it ended up being good.  But like, what I’m realizing about being intimate and vulnerable is that I always wanted to be here. I always wanted to be intimate and vulnerable. But I didn’t know how. I was chipping away at it, year after year, you know, I was trying things, you know, working in therapy and doing all sorts of different things. But to have a major health crisis, or something really major in your life, landing you in a place where you you basically have to be intimate, have to be vulnerable… It’s a little mind-blowing. But there is this aspect I’m also realizing about vulnerability, is that you have to really make a decision to receive. There is something in being vulnerable, when you’re opening yourself up, it’s frightening. But you’re also basically saying, I’m willing to receive. And that’s a sea change for me. That is an absolute sea change.  I went on Facebook the other day — I don’t spend a lot of time on Facebook. But I was like, Okay, I’ve got this circle of friends who’ve been wonderfully supportive, but I’m willing to tell other people. I’m willing to tell the next 1200 friends that I have on Facebook about what has happened, because I’m like, this is really fucking important. And I laid the story out in a fairly non-dramatic way, as much as a brain tumor can be non-dramatic. And the response I got was amazing. People contributing — you know, they brought meals, words of encouragement. And I I cried, because these sorts of things… [exhales] Well, we so rarely have these events happen in our life, when we understand what we mean to other people. So, later this afternoon — earlier this afternoon, I should say. And by the way, one thing that has definitely happened is, as my brain is healing, I’m having to speak slower, because things don’t come out the way I want them to come out. I was in the basement of my of my apartment building, and I was walking through the laundry room, and I suddenly had this quiet sentence come into my head, which was, “I am worthy.” And I had never had that sentence come into my head. And at such depth. And I realized… it just, it was just so, such a… Again with the words, but something got reorganized inside of me. When I heard something that I thought was, oh, sure, I’m worthy. But then when you really feel it, like, oh, I don’t think I ever really thought I was worthy. And I was thinking about how with work and with sex, a lot of us show up and we’re camouflaging the fact that we feel intrinsically unworthy. And so, we do a lot of stuff, maybe that we don’t want to be doing to hide this feeling of unworthiness. And as this drama unfolds in my life, I can feel these layers sort of unpeeling. And I’m aware of these new awarenesses — even in three weeks, I know they’re going to continue — of just things coming up, as I continue to need to ask for help.  And I just, I want to end on a funny story, because this is kind of serious. I went to see my neurosurgeon last week to get my pathology reports. Okay, that’s not funny — it was scarier than shit. But it was benign, as I said, and so we were kind of winding down the interview. He’s like, so, you want to ask me any other any other questions? And I said, Yeah, I want to ask about orgasm. Because I interviewed this guy for the podcast a couple of months ago about this movie, this documentary movie he made called “A Sexplanation,” where they’re doing research that orgasms are a whole-brain activity. And what I want to know is, can I have an orgasm? Is that okay? Is it gonna be okay for me to have an orgasm? And he looks at me and he’s like — I couldn’t see his face. He was kind of frozen, the way neurosurgeons are when they just aren’t listening to you. So I couldn’t see half of his face. And he’s like, “Yes, as long as you don’t strain.” And I’m like,  oh, yeah, you’re a dude. You’re a dude, you strain. Because I don’t strain.  But I went home. I went home and I just kind of sat with it. I’m like, okay. He cleared me. He cleared me for an orgasm. Okay. Clear to have an orgasm. And a couple of days pass. I just was like, yeah, well, I don’t want to have an orgasm now. A couple of days pass, a couple days pass, and then suddenly one day, I’m like, yeah, I’d really like to have an orgasm. Like, wait. Okay, wait, is this gonna kill me? Shit. Now, he cleared me. He’s a neurosurgeon. He cleared me for orgasm. So I’m like, okay, so I pull out my like, favorite, easiest sex toy. Not a very dramatic one. But it’s like, this is a getter. This one’s gonna get me to where I need to go. [laughter] And I’m like, okay, okay, here we go. Let’s go. We’re gonna try. We’re gonna start real slow. Because this could kill you. No, it’s not gonna kill me! It’s not gonna kill me. I’m like, what if it does kill me? What a way to go. Oh, yeah. Okay, no, that’s not funny. That’s not — okay. So I’m starting. I’m like, okay, I’m feeling good. And I’m coming. It’s like, Yes, I’m coming. I’m still alive. And I’m like, oh, yeah, I’m still alive, I’m still alive, I’m still alive! And like, that’s it. I’m alive! We’re alive! We can have orgasms! Yes! [cheers and applause] If you’d like to help with the operating expenses of this podcast, which I would be profoundly grateful for due to the mounting medical bills I’m experiencing, you can leave a one-time tip or become a monthly Patreon member by following the links in the show notes. To purchase “The Pegging Book” go to our bookshop.com affiliate link. And for more information on RC Riley, go to our show notes or the episode web page on wildandsublime.com.  Well, that’s it folks. Have a very pleasurable week. Thank you for listening. If you know someone who might be interested in this episode, send it to them. Do you like what you heard? Then give us a nice review on your podcast app. You can follow us on social media @wildandsublime and sign up for newsletters at wildandsublime.com. I’d like to thank associate producer Julia Williams and design guru Jean-Francois Gervais. Theme Music by David Ben-Porat. This episode was edited by The Creative Imposter studios. Our media sponsor is Rebellious Magazine, feminist media, at rebelliousmagazine.com.